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9/11 denialist on "Hannity and Colmes"

Just to be pendantic, Thermate is the specific name for the formulation used by the U.S. military, and is composed of thermite (68.7%), barium nitrate (29%), sulphur (2%), and fillers (0.3%). It is used as an incendiary device (the Barium nitrate increases the incendiary effect) and can be used for welding.

Thermite, buy itself, has a small radius of effect and burns with little flame. Thermate is specially formulated to increases the flame and burn radius.
and one of the LC loons (johndoe) is saying since barium nitrate is water soluble, it would have washed away and not be found coincidental with the sulphur.

Never mind that finding sulphur still isn't evidence of thermate or termites for that matter
 
and one of the LC loons (johndoe) is saying since barium nitrate is water soluble, it would have washed away and not be found coincidental with the sulphur.

Never mind that finding sulphur still isn't evidence of thermate or termites for that matter

Um...

Barium nitrate isn't what you'd have after the thermate went off. It'd be oxidized. You'd likely end up with Barium oxide and various other barium compounds (barium sulfate, perhaps?).

Of course, sulphur is flammable, as well, and the sulfer from inside a thermite reaction is likely to form various oxides and nitrates of sulphur, rather than a mixture with steel.

Frankly, you don't look for the ingredients that make up thermate, because they were involved in a multi-thousand degree fire. You look for the combustion and reaction products produced by thermate.

His argument is like claiming that a car engine can't run on gas, because no gas comes out the tailpipe.
 
Frankly, you don't look for the ingredients that make up thermate, because they were involved in a multi-thousand degree fire. You look for the combustion and reaction products produced by thermate.

Come on, Huntsman, you don't actually think CTers understand "oxides" and "reaction products" and "evidence" do you? ;)
 
Thermate question

Because barium is soluble, would we expect all evidence of barium nitrate to wash away in water?


NEVERMIND: I see that the question has been answered and that I'm too lazy to read.
 
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In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes. Your interpretation never fell far from the consenus in class either. It was true, life made a comforting deal of sense. Looking back, I would have never guessed that a decade later, it would be such a rare life skill in American society. With that said, a lot of teachers around this country must feel like failures today. Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions:

1) Would they orchestrate the murder of American citizens as a stepping stone to dominating the middle east?

2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up.

Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted.

Extraordinary criminal versatility requires extraordinary big jumps to conclusions.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, methinks.
 
Just to be pendantic, Thermate is the specific name for the formulation used by the U.S. military, and is composed of thermite (68.7%), barium nitrate (29%), sulphur (2%), and fillers (0.3%). It is used as an incendiary device (the Barium nitrate increases the incendiary effect) and can be used for welding.

Thermite, buy itself, has a small radius of effect and burns with little flame. Thermate is specially formulated to increases the flame and burn radius.

You have to admit though, I didn't do bad for pulling from memory and being to lazy to search the forum for your exact post :D
 
I guess you didn't progress beyond elementary school to make so many fallacies in one post.
Did I link to discredited writers again - (hey, I was getting tired of not being refuted, so I left that one unchecked).
 
[/COLOR][/I]2) Bush has used the attacks incessantly to justify all his actions, and still does. This was, and still is, odd, moreso as it becomes concrete that it was simply illegal. If that really wasn't why Iraq was invaded, what was. Also, what is the underlying reason the attacks are so important. How does the evidence that "the attack were just a cooincidence" against "the attacks were part of a larger plan" stack up.

Saying "no" at this point is being willfully ignorant. The theory of the world trade center attack being a controlled demolition may have little to stand on (no pun intended), but this hardly means this level of speculation isn't warranted.

If the events of 9/11 were part of a conspiracy to justify war in Iraq, it must be a pretty lousy conspiracy. Surely any half-competent conspirator would fabricate a more convincing link between these events and Iraq?
 
Now that's not nice. In defense of SirPhilip, those conditions do warrant speculation.

Enough speculation to realize all available evidence points to the official conclusion. :rolleyes:
Keep in mind that I'm a card-carrying Republican who voted Bush in the second time - and would love to embrace the idea that we have a bunch of hard-working, though mishappen, people running this country at the moment who sincerely wanted to bring the light of democracy. The problem is, most likely the truth was, given how clumsily their follies have come to light:

1) George sat down and thought. "I ended up the President - I've done nothing with my life, but now I have a chance to exceed my father, whom I secretly resent..."

2) Cheney grimaced in the mirror: "Well, I'll be goddamned, I ended up the vice president, Nixon did nothing with his presidency, but now I have a chance to make him roll in his grave.."

[Weeks later..]

George: "Are you thinking what I'm thinking.."

Cheney: "Invade Iraq!""

George: "Hell yeah, man!"
 
In elementary school, we read literature and examined why each character did what and why. After months of this, and more complex situations, motives and themes were investigated in other books, you noticed people and events were more easily sized-up - and in some cases easy to predict their outcomes.


Um... er... apologies for pointing out the GLARINGLY obvious, but you're talking about STORIES!

Stories are not real life (surprise!). Characters are not real people. Characters have consistant scene-specific objectives, and consistant story-specific Super-Objectives. These together dictate MOTIVATION.

Real people do not work like this. Real life does not have themes. It does not always have motivations. Sometimes people don't even know what is motivating them from one moment to the next.




Sadly, the more it becomes evident the Iraq invasion was in actuality, pre-planned, when you consider the loss of life, this administration's mounting criminal record, you arrive at two hard, sweeping questions:



Actually I just came to a single conclusion, though I wouldn't call it "hard" or "sweeping".

You don't know what you're talking about.

-Andrew
 
If the events of 9/11 were part of a conspiracy to justify war in Iraq, it must be a pretty lousy conspiracy. Surely any half-competent conspirator would fabricate a more convincing link between these events and Iraq?
If the attacks didn't occur, there would have been no official (false) premise to invade Iraq, which is national security. The whole gist of my post in a nutshell is just a recognition of a motive. Clearly "evidence" for invading Iraq was intentionally fabricated. If it comes to light Bush had a motive before the attacks to invade Iraq, then the attacks cannot, and should not, be considered cooincidental no matter how many conspiracy theorists up the noise level. The reason they should not be considered cooincidental is there is overwhelming - direct and circumstantial - evidence of overwhelming corruption, that these people are war criminals, feel no guilt or responsibility over the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians and Americans, and it is only a matter of time before the debate stops and Americans accept this.
 
SirPhilips, take this to the political section of the board. This thread is about the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

If you have any real proof to bring forth, please do.
 
Can we leave fox news aside? We should be happy that for once some airtime was given on fox to attack what most of us here on these forums believe in a mass perversion of the truth, that was being perpetuated in one of your country's universities.
 
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Um... er... apologies for pointing out the GLARINGLY obvious, but you're talking about STORIES!

Stories are not real life (surprise!). Characters are not real people. Characters have consistant scene-specific objectives, and consistant story-specific Super-Objectives. These together dictate MOTIVATION.

Real people do not work like this. Real life does not have themes. It does not always have motivations. Sometimes people don't even know what is motivating them from one moment to the next.

Actually I just came to a single conclusion, though I wouldn't call it "hard" or "sweeping".

You don't know what you're talking about.

-Andrew
Bend over and prepare to receive the teachings, dweller in the land of endless sheep.
 
I always found it extremely amusing when Fox News fans called CNN a leftist channel. And then I realized that from their point of view, this is actually correct. When you are on the far right, then everything else is to the left.

I don't know when the president of the network marries Jane Fonda, it's kind of easy to belive he might just be a tad left leaning.

I can't prove it but I will bet there is a higher percentage of Democrats at Fox than there is Republicans at CNN.
 

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