Welcome to Hamastine!

Taking cues from the al-Qaeda gang that has recently arrived in Gaza...

The simple fact is, the strawberries are being grown and packed.

HAMAS is also packing aircraft with explosives, and these aircraft are aimed for the heart of Tel Aviv --
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50372
May 25, 2006
By Aaron Klein
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
  • Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas' so-called military wing, told WorldNetDaily yesterday that Hamas is preparing an operation to fly planes into Israeli targets, possibly Tel Aviv skyscrapers.

    "The goal is to have these planes carry maximum quantities of explosives and that they will be able to hit the targets that are fixed for its operation at a high level of accuracy. All the Zionist cities in our dear Palestine are legitimate (targets)."

    In February 2003, six Hamas members were reportedly killed in a blast while packing a small aircraft with explosives. Security reports at the time said Hamas planned to fly the airplane by remote control into an Israeli target.

There are Palestinians who want a peaceful, prosperous life...
Click to expand...

Can you name some key people calling for this aim? I would like to see your evidence of Palestinians coming forward with new and bold initiatives to reach a peaceful and prosperous solution. Mostly all I see is more of the same stuff like I quoted here by Abu Abdullah...
 
webfusion said:
HAMAS is also packing aircraft with explosives, and these aircraft are aimed for the heart of Tel Aviv --
Click to expand...
Do you think statements like this are part of the problem in the middle east? Do you have anything to back up this claim besides a hearsay story from worldnetdaily (who love this sort of story).....even worldnetdaily seem to be hedging by saying someone said to them that hamas would like to do this...someday....you have them actually packing the airframes with explosives right now, this is based on what?
 
T.F. asks: Do you think statements like this are part of the problem in the middle east?
Click to expand...

No.



[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ eta ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
“Al-Qaeda-Linked Terrorists in Gaza” was the title of a Jerusalem Post report last May 2005 by Khaled Abu Toameh. He cites Palestinian Authority security officials saying that a new terrorist group called Jundallah, or “Allah’s Brigades,” composed mostly of former Hamas and Islamic Jihad members, has already started operating in Gaza. One of the officials said Jundallah “has close ties with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.”
In that article, Abu Abdallah al-Khattab was identified as the spokesman for Jundallah.

Most likely, this is the man Aaron Klein interviewed.
I believe the terror groups are seriously intent on causing tremendous havoc in Israel.
It is totally possible that they can do it with shooting at inbound jetliners with anti-aircraft GRAIL/Strella missiles, or flying planes into the Azrieli Towers, or any other implementation of their myriad brutally insane schemes.
These groups are the main problem.

My citing Mr. Klein here is not a part of the problem. It is illustrative of what Israel is facing.
That fact is not in doubt.
 
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webfusion said:
No.



[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ eta ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
“Al-Qaeda-Linked Terrorists in Gaza” was the title of a Jerusalem Post report last May 2005 by Khaled Abu Toameh. He cites Palestinian Authority security officials saying that a new terrorist group called Jundallah, or “Allah’s Brigades,” composed mostly of former Hamas and Islamic Jihad members, has already started operating in Gaza. One of the officials said Jundallah “has close ties with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.”
In that article, Abu Abdallah al-Khattab was identified as the spokesman for Jundallah.

Most likely, this is the man Aaron Klein interviewed.
I believe the terror groups are seriously intent on causing tremendous havoc in Israel.
It is totally possible that they can do it with shooting at inbound jetliners with anti-aircraft GRAIL/Strella missiles, or flying planes into the Azrieli Towers, or any other implementation of their myriad brutally insane schemes.
These groups are the main problem.

My citing Mr. Klein here is not a part of the problem. It is illustrative of what Israel is facing.
That fact is not in doubt.
Click to expand...
who are you citing?? show me where they say Hamas is packing planes with explosives.. Why don't you go all out and have then circling above tel aviv as we speak? You are making stuff up, which is why I asked if statements like yours are part of the problem.
 
preparing

T.F. -- "who are you citing?? show me where they say Hamas is packing planes with explosives.."


Dude, are you totally nuts?
Did you even read the article?

The Abu Abdullah guy indicated this:

  • He said his group would not immediately carry out airplane attacks, but that Hamas is preparing for the possibility.

Preparing means packing the planes, keeping them hidden and secret, ready for take-off on short notice. What does 'preparing' mean to you, TF?

Should I now prepare for another one of your famous "Depends on the definition of preparing" replies???

From the article:
Hamas has previously been connected to foiled attacks using small airplanes. Israel in the past has reportedly had numerous security alerts involving plots to fly aircraft into skyscrapers, including Tel Aviv's two Azrieli towers. In February 2003, six Hamas members were reportedly killed in a blast while filling a small aircraft with explosives.
"In the past we succeeded to acquire one of these planes but the enemy discovered it and bombarded the plane killing our brothers who were working and training on the plane," AbuAbdullah told WND.

So, they're now working and training again.
Of that I have no doubt.

I find it typical of you to dismiss the essence of the interview.
You don't live in Tel Aviv.
 
webfusion said:
T.F. -- "who are you citing?? show me where they say Hamas is packing planes with explosives.."


Dude, are you totally nuts?
Did you even read the article?

The Abu Abdullah guy indicated this:

  • He said his group would not immediately carry out airplane attacks, but that Hamas is preparing for the possibility.

Preparing means packing the planes, keeping them hidden and secret, ready for take-off on short notice. What does 'preparing' mean to you, TF?

Should I now prepare for another one of your famous "Depends on the definition of preparing" replies???

From the article:
Hamas has previously been connected to foiled attacks using small airplanes. Israel in the past has reportedly had numerous security alerts involving plots to fly aircraft into skyscrapers, including Tel Aviv's two Azrieli towers. In February 2003, six Hamas members were reportedly killed in a blast while filling a small aircraft with explosives.
"In the past we succeeded to acquire one of these planes but the enemy discovered it and bombarded the plane killing our brothers who were working and training on the plane," AbuAbdullah told WND.

So, they're now working and training again.
Of that I have no doubt.

I find it typical of you to dismiss the essence of the interview.
You don't live in Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...
yes web, I read the article....it is a thing called hearsay. The reason I dismiss "the essence" of the article is because what you describe as "the essence" is, in fact, your fantasy based on the article....yes I dismiss your claim that explosives are currently being packed on aircraft...it is completely without foundation, it is your personal theory that you wish to dress as "fact"


anyway...this is one of your best.

"Preparing means packing the planes, keeping them hidden and secret, ready for take-off on short notice. What does 'preparing' mean to you, TF?"

from one little acorn an oak tree grows. From one website that specialises in such stories one hearsay article containing the word "preparing" has you confidently stating that aircraft are being packed with explosives as we speak. so why not have them circling tel aviv as we speak?

Any thoughts on where hamas are hiding these planes? secret underground hangers?

to be honest web...I wouldn't swap you a kilo of Kangaroo dung for all the combined wisdom and integrity of mr Klein and worldnetdaily...you need to get around a few more reputable news services and build a better case for the existance of your secret hidden explosive filled palestinian airforce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily

In early 2005, WND hired Aaron Klein to run a Jerusalem bureau.[20] Klein's articles have regularly promoted the causes of Israeli settlers in the West Bank and Gaza who oppose Israeli disengagement from those areas.[21] He has frequently written about right-wing Israeli activists tied to the far-right Kach and Kahane Chai movement without disclosing those ties.[22] When Eden Natan-Zada shot and killed four people on a bus in Gaza on August 4, 2005, he was beaten to death by a mob while he was hand-cuffed, Klein wrote an article for WND claiming that Zada was "murdered" by a "mob of Palestinians."[23]
 
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I go away for a while, I come back, and it's like I've never left.

I think I'll go away again.
 
Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas' so-called military wing, told WorldNetDaily yesterday that Hamas is preparing an operation to fly planes into Israeli targets, possibly Tel Aviv skyscrapers.
Click to expand...

The entire suggestion of this murderous operation was represented in the article as an interview with "the press." AbuAbdullah was quoted directly.
That's not hearsay.

I don't doubt that there are plans underway to prepare mass murder in Tel Aviv. How is repeating a direct quote by a spokesman for these islamic terrorists suddenly transformed into "my fantasy"?


After all, it is al-qaeda and al-qaeda wannabees, so I take them at their word.
That you do not is truly astounding.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Orwell, that was your entire contribution to this discussion? Remarkable.
 
webfusion said:
The entire suggestion of this murderous operation was represented in the article as an interview with "the press." AbuAbdullah was quoted directly.
That's not hearsay.
Click to expand...
well yes it is web...but that is actually not the issue. Even if this dude said what that partisan hack from worldnetdaily reports...and I don't doubt its quite possible...I still don't see how it allows you to have people packing explosives into airframes as we speak. This is simply fantasy based on your imagination. It is all too common and it is one of the ongoing contributary problems of this issue...as I said, why not have these exlosive packed planes circling tel aviv as we speak?? why not?? Lets load them with nuclear dirty bombs while we are at it....
 
sources and more sources

T.F, I don't care one whit about your problems with the source of WND.
You have already stated that you have problems with accepting sources such as the IDF or the Israeli government, so when I post information here, you are the LAST one I am trying to target. (well, actually Orwell is the last one, but don't tell him that, it might get him to return instantly).


How about this report?
IDF soldiers entered a high-rise and arrested Mahmoud Shubaki, the head of the Islamic Jihad's military wing in Qalqilyah.
Security sources said Shubaki moved to Ramallah at the beginning of the year to establish a terror network that would operate relatively close to Israeli territory.

Who are these sources? What do they know? How did they hear about this Shubaki fellow? Why did they think he was preparing a terror network?

All excellent questions. None of the news media will give you those answers, TF.

So, there you have it. Mr Shubaki, arrested and for no good reason, since the "security sources" are not to be believed.

Whatever...
 
webfusion said:
T.F, I don't care one whit about your problems with the source of WND.
You have already stated that you have problems with accepting sources such as the IDF or the Israeli government, so when I post information here, you are the LAST one I am trying to target. (well, actually Orwell is the last one, but don't tell him that, it might get him to return instantly).


How about this report?
IDF soldiers entered a high-rise and arrested Mahmoud Shubaki, the head of the Islamic Jihad's military wing in Qalqilyah.
Security sources said Shubaki moved to Ramallah at the beginning of the year to establish a terror network that would operate relatively close to Israeli territory.

Who are these sources? What do they know? How did they hear about this Shubaki fellow? Why did they think he was preparing a terror network?

All excellent questions. None of the news media will give you those answers, TF.

So, there you have it. Mr Shubaki, arrested and for no good reason, since the "security sources" are not to be believed.

Whatever...
Click to expand...
Did they find any planes packed with explosives in the room with him web?

or is this just a new direction having quietly abandoned that explosive packed airplane claim?
 
evidence

Here ya go, Israeli photographic units in the field have the proof of Islamic terrorists preparing aircraft which are intended to be flown into Tel Aviv skyscrapers. That is the declared intent, anyway.

These drones (Mirsad), or the main components for them, were very likely smuggled by Iranian/Hezbollah agents assisting their buddies in HAMAS into Gaza via Egypt.
True, I have no independent confirmation of that to offer here, but logic tells me this is an accurate assessment of the current situation. The WND report only adds to the total evaluation of what is being prepared...
Their small size and portability makes hiding them and preparing them in secret a very simple matter. They may already be in the West Bank, and not Gaza.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/050412/nn_myers_hezbollah_050412.300w.jpg


I can only question their ability to reach the targets without IAF interception!

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001190.html
DefenseTech.org

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477528/
MSNBC.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2004-daily/14-11-2004/world/w10.htm
Jang.
 
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webfusion said:
Here ya go, Israeli photographic units in the field have the proof of Islamic terrorists preparing aircraft which are intended to be flown into Tel Aviv skyscrapers. That is the declared intent, anyway.

These drones (Mirsad), or the main components for them, were very likely smuggled by Iranian/Hezbollah agents assisting their buddies in HAMAS into Gaza via Egypt.
True, I have no independent confirmation of that to offer here, but logic tells me this is an accurate assessment of the current situation. The WND report only adds to the total evaluation of what is being prepared...
Their small size and portability makes hiding them and preparing them in secret a very simple matter. They may already be in the West Bank, and not Gaza.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/050412/nn_myers_hezbollah_050412.300w.jpg


I can only question their ability to reach the targets without IAF interception!

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001190.html
DefenseTech.org

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7477528/
MSNBC.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/nov2004-daily/14-11-2004/world/w10.htm
Jang.
Click to expand...
Honestly web....whats the point? You extrapolated wildly on a news article that appears to be a worldwide exclusive for WND (can't find anyone else who has anything to say about it).....from the word "preparing" that someone claims someone else said you decide that this proves the existance of explosive filled aircraft in gaza...when asked for some evidence you provide some links to some tiny unmanned drone apparently flown from lebanon some time ago by Iranians to give hezbollah something to brag about...
 
Fantastic

I provided clear and convincing evidence that islamic terrorists are capable and are intent on sending aircraft (a drone is an aircraft, with a capacity of 100 pounds of explosive) into Israeli airspace.

Earlier in this thread, I provided a link to an interview (all interviews are of the "he said" type) ---- an exclusive interview of Hamastine PM Haniyeh by Ha'Aretz correspondent Danny Rubenstein. In the article, Mr Rubenstein also quoted a HAMAS spokesman Ghazi Hamed. Was that all hearsay? By your standard, all reports from 'unnamed sources' or 'spokesmen' are hearsay, and we will have precious little to rely on in the press.

I take that Ha'Aretz reporter at face value.
I take the WMD interview at face value.

Why?
Because their information is consistent with a set of known facts.

To wit:

1. Hamas and Hexbollocks are in collusion. That is a known fact.
2. Hamas has, in the past, attempted to activate a drone with explosives.
3. Hamas is openly determined to commit acts of extreme terrorism.
4. Smuggling of all sorts of weaponry (including GRAD-class missiles) is rampant into gaza.
5. Al-Qaeda operatives are in gaza, cooperating with the Izz-A-Din-Al-Qassem boys. They have all sorts of brutal, maniacidal intentions.
6. Abu Abdullah says that he wants to attack cities in Israel with aircraft filled with explosives.

It all adds up. To Mirsad drones being assembled RIGHT NOW, to being packed with explosives, to being programmed with specific Israeli civilian targets, to being readied for an opportunity to send them off on a mission to blow up Tel Aviv skyscrapers.

This is not wild extrapolation.
This is not fantasy.

This is the hard reality of life in close proximity to islamic fundamentalists who are hell-bent on doing exactly what they openly tell the world they are preparing to do.

(see: Egypt April 1967)

It is obvious to me that the WMD report contains accurate quotes, and that Aaron Klein's report does represent the true situation regarding the declared plans of the terror organizations, to pack aircraft with explosives and fly them against Israeli cities.

I am not a member of the IDF intelligence corps.
I have no direct access to 'positive proof' of these Mirsad RPV's being readied. If that is the admission you are seeking from me, I have no problem providing it. I have not seen the Mirsad aircraft in Gaza with my own eyes, and to the best of my knowledge, no major news outlet has been offered an 'inside look' at the sites where they are being prepared.


TF, right up until a headline story breaks that one of these birds is actually shot down by the IAF, I can predict you'll be continuing to waste JREF bandwidth posting here telling me it is 'my fantasy' ---

How droll.
 
T.F declares to webfusion: "You are making stuff up"
Click to expand...

Not.


[[[[[[[[[[ eta ]]]]]]]]]]

  • Ever since the Israeli pullout from Gush Katif and Gaza last summer, one-and-a-half tons of explosives have been smuggled into the Gaza Strip, a senior IDF Operations Branch officer told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee during a briefing Tuesday.

It is plain as the nose on my face that some of these explosives are absolutely no question about it being packed into Mirsad RPV aircraft right now, in preparation for an aerial terror assault on Tel Aviv skyscrapers. That is a goal, that is the mission, that is what the Islamic-terrorist murderers wish to do.

Anyone who tells you this is 'a fantasy' is a liar.
 
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From New York

The New York SUN newspaper has reprinted the Aaron Klein article about the acquisition of three UAV aircraft by terrorists in Gaza.

I gotta say, I'm pretty sick and tired of TF making a huge noise here about my mentioning the report, and how he keeps moaning that it's 'a fantasy' since it's 'unconfirmed' (Ed knows how journalists would actually get solid confirmation of terrorists preparing three attack aircraft !!!) ---

Anyway, here's some food for thought:
http://www.armscontrol.ru/UAV/mirsad1.htm
Currently no country has an efficient defense against small low-flying UAVs, because existing air defense systems are not designed to counter threats of this type. Air defenses are mainly aimed at relatively large and fast planes. Thus, it is not surprising that Israeli air defense turned out to be weak against "Mirsad 1" UAV flown by Hezbollah (November 7, 2004) . Israeli army could also do nothing to shoot down the plane though they observed the entire flight over their territory.

BTW, I notice that TF has dropped off this thread, with nothing else to say about the RPV / UAV planned missions, except to snipe at me with a lame remark on another thread about how "the Palestinians have a huge raygun in a hollow mountain staffed by people in cool silver outfits and intend to knock the moon out of orbit and crash it into Israel.... "

That's incredible. Just incredible, under the circumstances.
As a skeptic, I'm shocked at this type of nonsense here on the JREF.
It's a real shame.
 
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webfusion said:
That's incredible. Just incredible, under the circumstances.
As a skeptic, I'm shocked at this type of nonsense here on the JREF.
It's a real shame.
Click to expand...
As a skeptic? What principle of skepticism is demonstrated by stating that something is happening because a journalist quotes someone giving thier opinion on its probability?

You make a quite specific statement...that Palestinians are currently packing airframes with explosives. You do not just limit your claim to a statement that it is possible, you do limit yourself to a claim that someone has said it is a good Idea, you do not claim it is probable...you claim it is happening. What do you call that sort of claim?

Please present a single piece of evidence that Palestinians are currently packing airframes with explosives.....Not evidence that someone thinks it is possible or likely or even absolutely true. I can give you endless evidence for the loch ness monster based on that principle.

Web...I have no doubt there are plenty of people who would do this if they had the skill, knowledge and materials necessary...but a claim that it is actually happening is simply a claim without evidence, an opinion. So how about you go to the infinite trouble of adding "I think" to the start of your claims and you will have less trouble with people asking for evidence you don't have.

The statement "Palestinians have a huge raygun hidden in a mountain and are planning to knock a chunk off the moon and crash it into Israel" Is a claim with absolutely no evidence to back it up....If I presented an article claiming quotes from Palestinians saying they were not planning to do this now but were prepared to do it in the future....It may be evidence to support a claim about those peoples opinions, intentions or attitudes but it does not support the case for a claim the raygun and mountain hideout actually exist. Neither do any number of statements from people that it is possible, probable or even that it truly ruley realy honestly cross my heart is happening right now.

to quote you...
"I have no direct access to 'positive proof' of these Mirsad RPV's being readied. If that is the admission you are seeking from me, I have no problem providing it. I have not seen the Mirsad aircraft in Gaza with my own eyes, and to the best of my knowledge, no major news outlet has been offered an 'inside look' at the sites where they are being prepared."

so lets get this quite straight as you are crowing about the principles of skepticism...what principle of skepticism is making a claim that cannot be supported with evidence? Your claim is based on faith, you see evidence of what someones aims are...what thier goals are...what they think is a good idea...what they would like to do and you then make a leap of faith that this is actually happening. what area of Skepticism uses faith based conclusions?
 
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