Loose Change

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geggy said:
...I've already explained thousands of times in this thread and you people accuse me of going round and round on the merry go round.
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Hi geggy. I can understand not wanting to answer the same thing repeatedly. So how about you respond to something you haven't explained yet, even though I've asked it a couple of times: Assuming that what you and your fellow CT'ers are saying is true, and the Bush administration are the worst mass murderers in the history of America, what should we do about it? Don't say "ask questions," because if what you're saying is accurate, the time for asking questions is long past. Don't say "reopen the 9/11 investigation," because what would that prove? You already say there's ample evidence to prove your point, and why would a new investigation, done by the same types of experts, turn out any differently? And don't say "vote Democrat" because a regime willing and able to murder thousands of its own citizens whould certainly not hesitate to fix an election (maybe they already have, if you're looking for a consipracy that may actually have a bit of substance to it). And besides, the Dems have all the info you do and more, and still all of them agree with the official version of 9/11. So by your lights they're either stupid or untrustworthy.

So, please tell me geggy: what should we, the American people, do about this? This isn't just an academic or rhetorical question; the answer goes a long way towards helping me understand what it is you and your cronies want from all of this.
 
Tirdun said:
I've seen it. Endlessly, thank you.
GWB spends 7 minutes in the classroom after being told that a second aircraft had hit WTC2. Seven. I've spent half that composing this post.
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Of all the LEGITIMATE things Bush gives us to complain about, why do people like geggy keep pulling this one out of the trash?

Maybe Bush could have handled it better.

Maybe, if he could do it over again, he would handle it differently.

So what? Would it have made ANY DIFFERENCE at all if he had left right then instead of 7 minutes later?

Sheesh.
 
Stellafane said:
So, please tell me geggy: what should we, the American people, do about this? This isn't just an academic or rhetorical question; the answer goes a long way towards helping me understand what it is you and your cronies want from all of this.
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Maybe we should take the same bold action as the Loosers: Hang out in an internet forum, trading implausible theories and bitching about the government.
 
Tirdun said:
Humanity is slipping into the void of ignorance while you cheer and wave.
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Thanks for the new sig - I've been looking for a new one.

(Speaking of sigs, it's "occasion", not "occation".;) )
 
aggle-rithm said:
Of all the LEGITIMATE things Bush gives us to complain about, why do people like geggy keep pulling this one out of the trash?

Maybe Bush could have handled it better.

Maybe, if he could do it over again, he would handle it differently.

So what? Would it have made ANY DIFFERENCE at all if he had left right then instead of 7 minutes later?

Sheesh.
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I guess Bush should have donned his cape, flown to the Pentagon, intercepted the plane in mid-air, and taken out the hijackers with his X-ray vision. Then he could carry the plane on his back and set it down gently on the White House lawn in front of the cheering masses. Anything less proves he's a mass murderer.
 
aggle-rithm said:
Of all the LEGITIMATE things Bush gives us to complain about, why do people like geggy keep pulling this one out of the trash?

Maybe Bush could have handled it better.

Maybe, if he could do it over again, he would handle it differently.

So what? Would it have made ANY DIFFERENCE at all if he had left right then instead of 7 minutes later?

Sheesh.
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He was supposed to stand up and say 'Activate the Omega 13!' and then all would be better! That is, of course, unless he planned the whole thing!
 
Zoilus said:
Okay so I'm on the fence but I wanna believe the OV. Tell me something that will make me believe it. Give me your strongest case (I've read some of this thread, but 3,000+ posts--fuhgedaboutit).
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I have a feeling that nothing I tell you can make you believe it, but I'll tell you why I believe it:

Almost every inconsistency, seemingly suspicious occurrence, or alternate explanation raised by inside jobbers is something taken out of context, misreported, misinterpreted, or simply wrong, and has a perfectly innocuous explanation, completely falling apart under even the most basic scrutiny--controlled demolition, no plane at the Pentagon, no plane at Shanksville, no hijackers, NORAD stand down, etc.

Literally nothing that these people have raised has turned out to be worth investigating beyond what we are already investigating (such as the tower collapses) or already know (such as NORAD's activities and timeline).

The official version, on the other hand, is coherent and internally consistent, and stands up to serious, unbiased scrutiny. There are some unknowns in the details, but no more than you'd expect from any huge, complex event, and any red flags raised have been addressed to my satisfaction.

Bolstering my confidence in the major structure of the OV is the fact that it's not high-paid gov't lackeys that are primarily responsible for its shape and narrative. It's the crews on the ground and in the field who were most closely involved in the aftermath and/or affected by it, and whose who have the most specialized expertise in the many strands of investigation--these people are almost unanimous in their acceptance of the official version.

The people harboring deep doubts about the OV, on the other hand, are almost unanimously far-removed from first-hand experience and/or expertise related to the attacks, and base their doubts on their armchair analysis of videos, still photos, and quotes stripped of their context. And the logical outcomes of their doubts inevitably lead to absurdities and/or contradictions.

In my view, there's simply no contest.
 
Pardalis said:
Wow, just read the readers responses in the bottom of the page! Forget the avian flu, there's another epidemic on our hands... the idiocy pandemic!:boxedin:
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I have an offline acquaintance who is a 100% ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊-crazy conspiracy theorist. Illuminati, the Cassiopeians, the whole thing. He told me I need to be concerned about the "creeping fascism" plaguing our country. I didn't tell him I was more concerned about creeping stupidity.
 
Manny said:
Michael Moore's former assistant, on the Huffington Post, thinks you should go see Loose Change right now.
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That kid's writing is as sloppy as a Loose Change Forum regular. The Huffington Post is a strange place - on one hand, The Bad Astronomer sometimes has his writing featured there, and on the other hand, they have stuff like this, and incoherent ramblings from Deepak Chopra, and the "vaccines cause autism" wackos. What a mix!

Someone who has an account to comment there needs to point out to MarkusQ that Ben Chertoff is not related to Michael Chertoff, and had never even heard of him until the PM article had already been written.
 
CurtC said:
That kid's writing is as sloppy as a Loose Change Forum regular. The Huffington Post is a strange place - on one hand, The Bad Astronomer sometimes has his writing featured there, and on the other hand, they have stuff like this, and incoherent ramblings from Deepak Chopra, and the "vaccines cause autism" wackos. What a mix!

Someone who has an account to comment there needs to point out to MarkusQ that Ben Chertoff is not related to Michael Chertoff, and had never even heard of him until the PM article had already been written.
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I commented, but it's a brand-new account, so I don't have instant posting privileges. It has to be moderated, I presume.

I pointed out the Chertoff lie, linking to CptColumbo's posts, and also responded to the article itself, providing a link to Gravy's critique.
 
chipmunk stew said:
I commented, but it's a brand-new account, so I don't have instant posting privileges. It has to be moderated, I presume.

I pointed out the Chertoff lie, linking to CptColumbo's posts, and also responded to the article itself, providing a link to Gravy's critique.
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I created an account and posted as well, very shortly after the link was posted here. My comments are still not up. :(
 
chipmunk stew said:
The official version, on the other hand, is coherent and internally consistent, and stands up to serious, unbiased scrutiny. There are some unknowns in the details, but no more than you'd expect from any huge, complex event, and any red flags raised have been addressed to my satisfaction.

Bolstering my confidence in the major structure of the OV is the fact that it's not high-paid gov't lackeys that are primarily responsible for its shape and narrative. It's the crews on the ground and in the field who were most closely involved in the aftermath and/or affected by it, and whose who have the most specialized expertise in the many strands of investigation--these people are almost unanimous in their acceptance of the official version.
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Ha! Don't make me laugh. The FBI was told to put halt to the sept 11 investigation just a month after the attacks. Several commissioners of the sept 11 commission have resigned over their frustration with W. stonewalling and under-funding the investigation. They were given only $3 mil and 9 months(?) to start with. Later the commission would request for more fundings at $12 mil, but were only given $9 mil. Max Cleland, the most ouspoken of the ex-commissioners, have complained that they weren't given enough money and time to start with the investigation. Later after the report was released, he would eventually call it a total farce, which lead me to believe something is fishy about sept 11 itself. I think someone who was actually a part of the commission would have a lot more credibility to speak out against the sept 11 report than those who do.
 
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