Loose Change

[Dr Adequate]

Time to update "[swiki]9/11 coverup[/swiki]", I think.

 

[DavidJames]

Snipping the list of sites PS, beautiful

Gravy, incase I haven't said it in the past few days, you are the man.

Not so fast there. geggy showed us a link showing a possible, partial email from a structural engineer, maybe, from Texas, allegedly, without a name.

And you expect those links can trump that?

 

[Gravy]

Tortured Animals?

I also scratched my head over that statement, but I don't want to bring attention to it because I don't need the competition from PETA. i posted the link to my critique on that forum and was accused of being an "agent," but no one said "because you're an agent I'm strangling this puppy." Maybe what Logan meant is that we're animals and the CTists are torturing us.

 

[Pardalis]

I'm saying it didn't look like a controlled demo that is normally practiced in a regular building imploding project

I'm saying it (controlled demo) was done differently and uniquely for the towers to start imploding from the top

Thanks for clearing that one out, but it still doesn't make any sense. Do you have any evidence that there was a controlled-demolition-that-didn't-look-like-a-normal-demolition-so-that-it-would-look-like-a-collapse-from-the-top-but-wasn't?

 

[Gravy]

Not so fast there. geggy showed us a link showing a possible, partial email from a structural engineer, maybe, from Texas, allegedly, without a name.

And you expect those links can trump that?

That's good enough for me. CD it is.

 

[aggle-rithm]

That's it! Dr. Adequate and aggle have hit on something important here, and I think we need a name for it. Ockham's kaleidoscope?

[/CENTER]

I was thinking "Ockham's Play-Doh", to emphasize the point of more stuff being stuck on the outside of it.

Or:
Ockham's Spackle
Ockham's Gum-wad
Ockham's Toilet-Blockage

etc.

 

[Pardalis]

A great list of links, linked to from Perry Logan's site:

Geggy, can you actually believe all these people are in on the conspiracy?

Thanks for over loading my bookmark page Gravy

 

[chipmunk stew]

I was thinking "Ockham's Play-Doh", to emphasize the point of more stuff being stuck on the outside of it.

Or:
Ockham's Spackle
Ockham's Gum-wad
Ockham's Toilet-Blockage

etc.

How 'bout Occam's Bowling Ball?

As in: "He's as sharp as a bowling ball."

 

[Gravy]

I was thinking "Ockham's Play-Doh", to emphasize the point of more stuff being stuck on the outside of it.

Or:
Ockham's Spackle
Ockham's Gum-wad
Ockham's Toilet-Blockage

etc.

"Ockham's Play-Doh Toilet Wad Ball" just about covers it.

 

[Manny]

I also scratched my head over that statement, but I don't want to bring attention to it because I don't need the competition from PETA. i posted the link to my critique on that forum and was accused of being an "agent," but no one said "because you're an agent I'm strangling this puppy." Maybe what Logan meant is that we're animals and the CTists are torturing us.

There's a lot on that page which isn't materially less out there than the CTers. I guess you can't stop the guy from linking you, but I think this is a case were you can be glad you don't have a web page of your own lest you feel pressured to return the favor.

 

[aggle-rithm]

How 'bout Occam's Bowling Ball?

As in: "He's as sharp as a bowling ball."

You know how a snowball gets bigger and bigger as it rolls downhill?

"Ockham's Snowball".

 

[Pardalis]

geggy, I've just uncovered some evidence that the US is planning on spliting Africa in two to make Somalia pay for the 1993 killings of US soldiers. Any thoughts on it geggy?

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,405947,00.html

 

[Gravy]

You know how a snowball gets bigger and bigger as it rolls downhill?

"Ockham's Snowball".

(Doing his best Merv Griffin) Ooooooh! That's good!

 

[Gravy]

There's a lot on that page which isn't materially less out there than the CTers. I guess you can't stop the guy from linking you, but I think this is a case were you can be glad you don't have a web page of your own lest you feel pressured to return the favor.

I really got a kick out of that site. It's entertaining, and there is good info for those who want it. Clearly not meant for fence-sitters. Dozens of animated Ann Coulters? Sure, why not?

 

[bob_kark]

Wow, you go away for a little while and there's always a nice novel to read when you come back...

Thanks for the impressive list of links Gravy, my favorites list is tearing at the seams.

 

[Pardalis]

I love this part from the Perry Logan's site Gravy linked to us:

Imagine the planners of 9/11 sitting around a table, cooking up their scheme...

Planner One says, "Uh...we could make it look like fires brought down the towers. Let's throw in WTC7, too. Hu-hu-hu-hu!"

"You idiot!" snarls Planner Two. "That would be unprecedented in history! It would give the whole plan away! AARRGHH!"

(Planner Two smacks Planner One upside the head many times for suggesting such a stupid plan. And rightly so.)

 

[Hellbound]

I think we all missed something in guggy's quote from the report:

Military Notification and Response. The first indication that the NORAD air defenders had of the second hijacked aircraft, United 175, came in a phone call from New York Center to NEADS at 9:03.The notice came at about the time the plane was hitting the South Tower.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Bolding mine.

First report of the second aircraft, not first report of any aircraft.

 

[Gravy]

I think we all missed something in guggy's quote from the report:


Bolding mine.

First report of the second aircraft, not first report of any aircraft.

Yes. See my reply here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1624474&postcount=3116

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Hey guys, great stuff in this thread. Excellent debunking of the truthseeker cult. It's taken me over a week to read this mammoth thread after having it pointed out on the now defunct United 93 message boards. Now that I've finally finished reading it, I just had a couple comments I wanted to make.

"Professor" Steven Jones and Christ in America

Like "Professor" Jones, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I too believe that Jesus visited the ancient ancestors of the Aztecs, Mayans and others. So too, are the members of the Brigham Young University department of Civil Engineering, all of whom have discredited Jones's work.

Especially offensive to me as a Lattery-Day Saint, was Jones, with the same breath that he invoked the heroes of mormon scripture, claiming that he had been approached by individuals working for government agencies ostensibly for the pourpose of silencing him. If Jones is full of crap (as we know him to be) then there is no motivation for anyone involved in the mythical 9-11 conspiracy to be making attempts to silence him, he is therefore LYING bout being stalked by these shadowy agents. And by his lies, he is slandering our faith.

"Professor" Jones is a quack, blindly stumbling through an ethical minefiled that is more likely to blow up in his face than provide him the 15 minutes of fame that is his obvious true objective. His scientific incompetence and moral failings are an issue seperate from our religious beliefs.

Alternative Conspiracies

As a sidebar to the arguments involving the staggering size and complexity of the alleged 9-11 "false flag" conspiracy, one has to wonder if any smaller and more effective alternatives were considered by our hypothetical plotters?

Why did they not, for example, think to spray a New York mosque with plutonium dust, wait for those who attend services there to start reporting to local hospitals en masse with advanced radiation sickness (this to estblish that the bomb was stored there) and then detonate a plutonium trigger (just the trigger, not a full bomb) in central park? It would kill a lot of people, leave the real valuable real estate untouched, give Bush his blank check, and provide treasure trove of easily exploitable propaganda images. And the whole thing could have been done with less than a dozen men.

Or... how about having a small number of 155 mm artillery shells manufactured to Iraqi specs, have iraqi markings engraved on them and have them filled with VX, sarin or whatever strikes the conspirators fancy. Have them transported to midtown Manhattan and opened up in the middle of rush hour. After the attack is mostly over, while there are thousands of government/military/law enforcement personnel running around in NBC suits cleaning up the mess, have secret agents of the conspiracy toss a couple arab bodies on the pile with long winded suicide notes in thier pockets. Again, this could be done withe less than a dozen men, minimizing the chance of discovery.

A secret cabal operating within the US government could have raised twice the hell with half the effort if they really wanted to. It seems logical that this "star chamber" group, assuming it exists, did not want to do such a thing at all.

Graphis Filter issue with Gravy's CT rebuttal

I read through the original PDF version of Gravy's Loose Change guide and enjoyed it a great deal. However, I'm having problems with the latest version. Every time I try to open it, I get "Unble to load graphics conversion filter" errors and the window self-terminates.

Does anyone know any workarounds for this or how to fix it?

 

[CptColumbo]

Thanks for coming by Sword of Truth and giving us another perspective on the issue.

As I wrote earlier, one of my fears is that historians and investigators will now have to make their way through all the fabrications and lies, made by people who just want to be quoted by someone else or profit from the disaster, to find out what really happened. For example, the Mark Hofmann affair in Salt Lake City, and his disruption of any look at the history of the LDS Church, some of his documents may have been genuine, but now they all have to be questioned because of his forgeries.