Loose Change

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Sword_Of_Truth said:
However, I'm having problems with the latest version. Every time I try to open it, I get "Unble to load graphics conversion filter" errors and the window self-terminates.

Does anyone know any workarounds for this or how to fix it?
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I got that when I tried to open it with WordPad. What program are you using?
 
geggy said:
I'm saying it didn't look like a controlled demo that is normally practiced in a regular building imploding project

I'm saying it (controlled demo) was done differently and uniquely for the towers to start imploding from the top
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And since basically no demo of this type has been done before, you're in no position to argue what it looks like.
 
Columbo - With regards to the historical authenticity of LDS doctrines, I'm afraid that's something that you will not get an unbiased debate from me on. I am very much a "true believer" in the church.

But that being the case, I do know the difference between solid proof and heartfelt faith. The behavior of the conspiracy nuts when confronted with actual proof of what happened on 9-11 strikes me as an entirely "faith-based" reaction. Being a man of faith, I know quite well when faith alone is dictating someones responses.

Ersby - I'm using Wordpad, like you.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Ersby - I'm using Wordpad, like you.
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Okay, well, there's your problem.

I'm using someone elses computer in these days, and it's someone who's never bothered to get a decent WP. So in the end I opened it with NotePad, then selected all, cutted and pasted it into Word Pad, and then read that. Unfortunately, you lose the graphics, but since you have the pdf that's no big deal. Most of the links and formatting is lost too however and you have to put up with a lot of weird stuff here and there, but the text is intact. It's the best I could do. If anyone knows another way, I'm all ears.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
But that being the case, I do know the difference between solid proof and heartfelt faith. The behavior of the conspiracy nuts when confronted with actual proof of what happened on 9-11 strikes me as an entirely "faith-based" reaction. Being a man of faith, I know quite well when faith alone is dictating someones responses.
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Maybe the Loose Change crowd have a "burning in the busom?"

Welcome to the thread, SoT!
 
Sword-I didn't mean it as an attack. If you took it that way, I'm sorry. I was just using that incident, one you might be familiar with, as an example. If anyone in the LDS Church or outside it wishes to study it's history, they have to now take these false leads into account. Hofmann also planted forgeries of autographed first editions, of Mark Twain and Poe. His motivation is unclear, money seemed to be the biggest, but prestige was also there. Some speculate about revenge, but it is only speculation.
 
Ersby said:
Okay, well, there's your problem.

I'm using someone elses computer in these days, and it's someone who's never bothered to get a decent WP. So in the end I opened it with NotePad, then selected all, cutted and pasted it into Word Pad, and then read that. Unfortunately, you lose the graphics, but since you have the pdf that's no big deal. Most of the links and formatting is lost too however and you have to put up with a lot of weird stuff here and there, but the text is intact. It's the best I could do. If anyone knows another way, I'm all ears.
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Chipmunk Stew had posted a possible fixes here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1620032&postcount=2917

If you like I just made an HTML version. It loses a little bit of formatting, but the graphics and links should work. It's under 1 Mb. I can email you if you like.
-G
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
(snip)
A secret cabal operating within the US government could have raised twice the hell with half the effort if they really wanted to. It seems logical that this "star chamber" group, assuming it exists, did not want to do such a thing at all.

Graphis Filter issue with Gravy's CT rebuttal

I read through the original PDF version of Gravy's Loose Change guide and enjoyed it a great deal. However, I'm having problems with the latest version. Every time I try to open it, I get "Unble to load graphics conversion filter" errors and the window self-terminates.

Does anyone know any workarounds for this or how to fix it?
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Welcome aboard. Here you can use both the sword, for slaying myths, and the plowshare, for sowing the seeds of truth.

See my last post for possible fixes to the graphics problem.

You know, I had thought that the idea of Jesus visiting the Americas was a Steven Jones invention. Is that a standard LDS teaching?
 
I didn't take your comments as an attack, I was just pointing out that I do understand when faith is guiding my responses more than proof.

And I agree with your assesment of the effects of Hoffman's fraudulent and homocidal rampage. For a man who claimed he was out to destroy the church, he ended up giving us the perfect escape hatch for intellectually lazy defenders of mormonism.

As for Steven Jones, when he started saying that he had been bribed and threatened by people he refused to name. That just made the needle on my BS-o-meter twitch.
 
Sword_Of_Truth, do you happen to live in Salt Lake County? If so, I'm dying to know about this new Steven Jones presentation. I emailed him about it but haven't heard back.

24 May 2006
Lecture: "Solar Cookers and the 9/11 Disasters"
by Prof Steven Jones
7:00 PM, Salt Lake Community College
Free Enterprise Building Room 101
9750 S 300 W, Sandy, UT 84070
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
As for Steven Jones, when he started saying that he had been bribed and threatened by people he refused to name. That just made the needle on my BS-o-meter twitch.
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Every time I hear about various conspiracy kooks getting threatened by unnamed people (government employees no doubt), I think of this exchange from an episode of Seinfeld -

J:Give me some idea of what you think it could be.

G:I don't know if you're ready for it. I believe that I am about to become the target of a systematic process of intimidation and manipulation, the likes of which you have never -

J:Hold it.You're right, I'm not ready for this.
 
This whole thing is motivating me to unpack, from my recent move, so I can find my personal pictures of Ground Zero and my chemistry/metalurgy/engineering books.
 
senorpogo said:
Every time I hear about various conspiracy kooks getting threatened by unnamed people (government employees no doubt), I think of this exchange from an episode of Seinfeld -

J:Give me some idea of what you think it could be.

G:I don't know if you're ready for it. I believe that I am about to become the target of a systematic process of intimidation and manipulation, the likes of which you have never -

J:Hold it.You're right, I'm not ready for this.
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I think about this one too:

Kramer enters.

Kramer: Well, I got gonorrhea.

Elaine: That seems about right.

Kramer: That's what they gave me.

George: They? The Government?
 
Gravy said:
Sword_Of_Truth, do you happen to live in Salt Lake County? If so, I'm dying to know about this new Steven Jones presentation. I emailed him about it but haven't heard back.
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I live in Edmonton in the frozen canadian north. Living in areas where mormons are a distinct minority tends to breed saner mormons. ;)

As for Jones saying the Men in Black are after him, go to google video, type "Steven E Jones" as your search words and it will be the video with the RED introductory text. It's a 52 minute video, but Jones starts BSing about the MIB's right at the beginning. I tried to link the video here, but apperantly I need to post 15 times first.

And yes, Christs visit to the americas is a standard LDS teaching. But as I said, it's an issue of faith more than one that can be proven. As God himself said in that other great scripture; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy "I refuse to prove that I exist, for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." Faith and proof each have thier place and shouldn't be confused with eachother.

Events like 9-11 wich were recorded by 10,000 video cameras simply aren't open to faith based interpretation.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
I live in Edmonton in the frozen canadian north. Living in areas where mormons are a distinct minority tends to breed saner mormons. ;)

As for Jones saying the Men in Black are after him, go to google video, type "Steven E Jones" as your search words and it will be the video with the RED introductory text. It's a 52 minute video, but Jones starts BSing about the MIB's right at the beginning. I tried to link the video here, but apperantly I need to post 15 times first.

And yes, Christs visit to the americas is a standard LDS teaching. But as I said, it's an issue of faith more than one that can be proven. As God himself said in that other great scripture; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy "I refuse to prove that I exist, for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." Faith and proof each have thier place and shouldn't be confused with eachother.

Events like 9-11 wich were recorded by 10,000 video cameras simply aren't open to faith based interpretation.
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:)
Here's the link to that Jones video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6023596331085044923&q=steven+E.+Jones

He looks harmless, and he's very soft-spoken, so why do I want to kick his ass?

Due to popular demand, here's a link to a PDF of my Looser critique. Remember, the web links won't work.
http://media2.uploadjar.com/file.php?file=uploads/loose_change_critique.pdf
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
I live in Edmonton in the frozen canadian north. Living in areas where mormons are a distinct minority tends to breed saner mormons. ;)
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[derail]

SoT, I showed this quote to a Mormon buddy, knowing he would appreciate it.

He was born and raised in So Cal, but attended BYU (he's quite an admirer of Hugh Nibley's work), and we've often talked about the differences between the Mormon religion and the Mormon culture (such as in Salt Lake).

He says that when he meets a Mormon, he can pretty much immediately tell whether or not they were raised where Mormons are in the majority.

[/derail]
 
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