Loose Change

[Hellbound]

Just saw your last bit of dirvel.

And explosive could not be used to releas thermite. You have absolutely no knowledge of what you are spouting. An explosive device would scatter the thermite over a wide area, completely nullifying it's effects. It would no longer be concentrated enough to melt through steel. Napalm is commonly scattered with small charges, but it's not any hotter than the jet fuel fire. If you want to argue napalm, then you admit that the fires were hot enough to drop the buildings. White Pospherous is, too, but again, it's not any hotter than normal petroleum-based fires (not to any appreciable degree).

Thermite is not scattered by explosives. Period. Not in any way that is even remotely effective. You are a willfully-ignorant moron, and you should really gain some basic knowledge of the subject matter, before you decide to argue with someone who has set, used, held, made, and studied thermite, C-4, Cb, TNT, and other less traditional explosives and compounds.

 

[kookbreaker]

No but an explosive device to release thermite can make popping sounds not a boooming sounds.

So kindly tell us: What is an explosive device to release thermite? What does it do, how does it release thermite, and why is it not an incredibly dumb thing to say?

 

[Hellbound]

I swear I'm about to pop a blood vessel. It's like someone spending a week watching "House" and then thinking they can perform surgery.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I swear I'm about to pop a blood vessel. It's like someone spending a week watching "House" and then thinking they can perform surgery.

Exactly. It needs to be at least 3 episodes.

 

[kookbreaker]

No but an explosive device to release thermite can make popping sounds not a boooming sounds.

A good thing to look up right now would be the explosive charge used on the MOVE roof bunker in Philadlephia, 1985.

You might learn something. But I doubt it.

 

[delphi_ote]

... someone who has set, used, held, made, and studied thermite, C-4, Cb, TNT, and other less traditional explosives and compounds.

I love this forum.

 

[Manny]

I love this forum.

No kidding. Contrast, at the Loosers site, a guy was IP banned for even asking if there were any demolition experts on the forum.

 

[chipmunk stew]

I love this forum.

I was thinking the same thing. On any given subject, we have some sharp guy or gal who's dug into the nitty-gritty and come up with the kind of arcane knowledge that only comes with lots of first-hand experience.

I absolutely love it!

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Reading this thread is like watching an exercise in "post-hoc Hypotheses"

"An explosion brought down the WTC"

"Explosives wouldn't have produced the high tempes you are going on about"

"Thermite could have"

"Thermite's not an explosive"

"It could have been thermite propelled by explosives"

"Doing that would scatter the thermite into uselessness"

etc.

Geggy is a typical CTer. Most CTers can't accept the possibility he is wrong so he has to add layers upon layers upon layers of complexity to his ideas whenever they get shot down, in hopes of keeping them afloat. This continues until the conspiracy theory is so complex that it is ridiculous, but since they are so convinced that they have THE TRUTH, that they don't see how ridiculous thier ideas are.

 

[Gravy]

...and other less traditional explosives and compounds.

...DO tell, Huntsman. This is getting fun!

 

[brodski]

I am not the master conspirator at all. In fact, I'm nobody. Ignore me. I totally don't count in this whole so-called "globalist" thing at all. Just a guy. Yep, a nobody.

Ah HA, only a true GLOBALIST would deny being a GLOBALIST. t look slike Delphi_OTE is just a patsy...
(sorry delphi)

 

[Hellbound]

delphi and chipmunk:

I want to be clear, I'm not an expert, but I have had experience with many of these compunds. I was trained as a Combat Engineer in the military. I've taken training from the U.S. Military on Improvised Munitions (which included Thermite, and various other explosives, incendiaries, and propellants that can be created in the safety and comfort of your own home), and I spent a year in Iraq with a Combat Engineering unit. Our main mission there was to blow things up (adandoned/dangerous buildings, Iraqi ammunition, vehicles, berms, IEDs, and other items). I have a copy of the Army's "Engineer's Bible" at home. That's the field manual that covers engineering operations, and includes sections about incendiaries and explosives. It also includes things such as the formulas to determine how much explosive you need to , for example, cut a steel beam or blow through a concrete wall. And I'm sorry, but a small hole blown in a 1 ft thick unreinforced concrete wall requires over a pound of C-4, assuming a best case scenario (shaped charges on both sides timed to detonate simultaneously) and stil lwould not result in much pulverized concrete. The amount that would have to be wired into the WTC if you assume explosives caused the pulverization would be staggering. I get the mental image of everyone going into work the next morning, and no one noticing that the floor was a foot higher due to the C-4 stuffed under the carpets

A little basic demolitions knowledge shows much of these arguments for the ignorance they are. The "Thermite scattered by explosives" idea is a perfect example. Thermite is a mix of two powders, that will combine in an exothermic chemical reaction once they get started (by heat). They don't work if they're scattered, because the powders seperate (different weights) and the small reactions that do occur don't spread enough heat to ignite other particles (it's too dispersed). A basic knowledge of what Thermite is and how it works, something that might take thirty minutes to an hour of research, at most, would put paid to the idea.

It shows how little research goes into CTer theories, and frankly it also shows how little they care about what really happened (despite thier mewling noises to the contrary).

 

[Hellbound]

Gravy:

Mostly I was referring to my training in improvised munitions. Urea nitrate, Hellofite, AN-AL, ammonium nitrate-deisel fuel, bathtub napalm (I have over 50 recipes), thermite, impact-ignition systems, improvised hand grenades made from cardboard, a nail, and a shotgun shell, improvised rocket propellent (yes, you can hand-make a bazooka), and similar things.

And no, I won't share any details with anyone on recipes or methods. It's easy enough to find the info if you really want to, so you don't need to get it from me

I've also dealt with white posperous ammunition and artillery rounds, beehive rounds (anti-personnel rounds fired from tanks or artillery that act like an air-burst shotgun shell, firing needles), anti-tank rounds and sabots, and other ammunition.

In addition, I've recieved training on the effects of nuclear explosives (estimating blast radius and flash radius, as well as "safe" distances), chemical and biological weaponry (primarily signs and symptoms, treatments, "safe" exposure levels, detection, decontamination, and delivery/dispersal methods), fuel-air explosives (the poor-man's nuke) and napalm and similar incendiaries.

None of this was in-depth training, none equal to waht an expert in any particular area would have, but I have a good grounding and knowledge of the basics in all these areas.

 

[delphi_ote]

I want to be clear, I'm not an expert, but I have had experience with many of these compunds.

Practical experience is still really important, bro. I'm glad you're around.

 

[delphi_ote]

Ah HA, only a true GLOBALIST would deny being a GLOBALIST. t look slike Delphi_OTE is just a patsy...
(sorry delphi)

Or would a true GLOBALIST say openly admit they were a GLOBALIST to make you think they were a mere patsy?

 

[Hellbound]

Or would they say it, so you'd think they were a patsy, then realize they were pulling a double-scam, then think that you'd be even more clever than that, then realize that you were really clever and were actually the head globalist?

 

[brodski]

Or would a true GLOBALIST say openly admit they were a GLOBALIST to make you think they were a mere patsy?

here is a really scary thought, what if there are no globalists?

 

[Hellbound]

here is a really scary thought, what if there are no globalists?

Yeah, right. Next you'll be telling us that Mornington Crescent isn't a real game...

 

[Doubt]

THERMITE IS NOT AN EXPLOSIVE, YOU ABSOLUTE IDIOT!!!!! THAT TAKES ABOUT FIVE MINUTES TO VERIFY, YOU BUFOOON!!!!

How many times do you have to be told before you wake up and smell yourself? It's worse than talking to my four-year old, he usually remembers the second time I tell him something.

Sheesh.

I can back up Huntsman on what he is saying here. Also a former combat engineer but with less improvised munitions training. We are having a similar discussion over at skepticforum with somebody who is not part of the loose screws group. Similar results too. Except you don't get to call people names there.

Here is a couple of links relative how controlled demoltion is really done. Quite a bit different than what the loose screw folks are making up out of thin air.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion2.htm

http://www.implosionworld.com/dyk3.html

Implosion world mentions what kind of explosives are really used. NO THERMITE. I would challange the loose screws folks to find one case where a controlled demoltion used thermite.

 

[brodski]

Yeah, right. Next you'll be telling us that Mornington Crescent isn't a real game...

well, its only a real game if you use the pre Vienna rules. Allowing the blocking of an opponents sub-diagonals whilst in nip took all the challenge out of it for me, but the the wanted to make it more TV friendly, what can you do?