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Loose Change

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As far as the Dr. Steven Jones paper is concerned, I would encourage you to look at:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...2.html#authors

With this Eagar/Musso paper you have a engineer and a metalurgist, teaming with a physicist to explain the fire induced collapse. Having just a physicist is good, but it's like having a podiatrist performing brain surgery.
 
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Can you show a single contemporary (ie, reported in a reputable news source at the time) account where any witness reported seeing anything but a civilian airliner hitting the Pentagon? Thanks!

One guy in the Loose Change video said it looked like a smaller commercial passenger plane, but the video doesn't say what his vantage point was or how long he had it in sight. Likewise, that video has a guy describing the plane that hit the south tower as having no windows. They don't mention that the guy was watching from Brooklyn.
 
And there was no molten metal in the basements of the WTC. there was some very hot metal, but not molten. molten would imply that its in a liquid state.

Just thought I'd clarify this a little. Some contractors did report "molten metal" in the basements, and some said "molten steel." I have no reason to doubt that there was molten metal there. What is in question is what type, or what mixture of types, it was. The metal was never tested.

I doubt if it was steel. There was steel that was red and orange pulled from the wreckage, but that's a long way from molten, in terms of temperature.

However, if we can trust satellite thermal imagery, parts of the site were hot enough to contain molten aluminum, which melts at about half the temperature of steel. Remember that the facades of the towers, plus the interior stud work and, of course, the aircraft, add up to a helluva lot of aluminum. I don't know how much aluminum was in WTC 7, in which molten metal was also found. I would assume that any similarly-constructed skyscraper would have a lot of aluminum in it.

And don't forget all that copper wiring, lead solder, etc, especially all the wiring that was already in the basements.

What I don't get is how CTists think that molten metal found two months after the collapse is indicative of a controlled demolition, no matter what materials they think were used to bring the buildings down.
 
...FEMA's report of the collapsing of WTC1 and 2 plausible yes but..
1. neither plane hit the center of the towers, damages made to south side of WTC7 as one of you pointed out yet all towers fell almost straight down. I would have a lot of doubt about the demolition theories if they tipped over.
Yes, they fell toward the ground as they collapsed, the sequence begun from the weakened top-most portions where the initial damage occurred. And as the astounding amount of material fell, quite a bit naturally accumulated beyond the footprints, damaging other buildings, not to mention leaving residue near and far.

2. Then there's the rate of fall being nearly at the speed of freefall, just doesnt make sense unless there was timed demolition.
Perhaps you're new to this thread (goodness knows, it's a long one), so you may have missed the numerous times the simple explanation has been given. In short, due to structural damage by way of their initial impact, secondary explosions forces, and subsequent fires, two really, really, really heavy buildings couldn't support their own weight any longer.

3. The pulverzitation of concrete that exploded into dust and small bits
And so...?

4. Explosive charges shooting out of buildings at high speed and long distance
No. No. No.

If you, however, want to maintain it's so, you need to provide proof, not your (or anyone else's) impression of what it looked like.

5. Molten metal in the rubble that burned for weeks and couldn't be put out, that lends to the demolition theory and this might be one of the most critical pieces of evidence.
"Molten metal?" What?!

There were subterranean fires beneath the WTC that continued to burn for days after the initial destruction. They were due to quite a few obvious reasons (do I need to list them?), and they were not put out for some time because there was kind of a big pile of debris in the way.

Where did this "molten metal" idea come from? And so what if there was some?

None of these oddities were addressed by the commission report yet the oddities of these listed above were characteristics of controlled demolition.
I wish I knew if you were being serious or not.

The most plausible explanation of why these buildings were brought down was that explosives were preplanted at stragetic points...
It's just sad to see someone suggest a conspiracy on the order of the largest undertaking of its kind in history is "the most plausible explanation."

So I have an idea: prove it.

You won't be able to, but I'd like to see you, or someone, try.

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Edited to add: I see now by Gravy's post #1505 what is meant by molten metal. A perfectly easy to explain byproduct of the forces and circumstance. Hardly evidence of anything nefarious.
 
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here is a short video clip of NYC firefighters hearing something go "boom-boom-boom"...

whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/discussion_in_firehouse.wmv
Here is an article reporting that explosions could be heard...

http://newsfromrussia.com/accidents/2005/02/13/58231.html

...but this isn't from WTC, it's from the Windsor Building in Madrid, which was burning. As far as I know, no one has ever suggested that it was bombed.
 
It was a big building with many different occupants, is it such a stretch to imagine that some might have something flamable in a container. There were artists who might have paint thinner, commercial painters with the same, people with fluid for their lighters, toner cartridges, alcohol stashes, ammunition for guards' guns, and simple air escaping from pockets. Many, on their own, would not necessarily be heard on the street, but there are many things that can explode or sound like an explosion.
 
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Here is an article reporting that explosions could be heard...

http://newsfromrussia.com/accidents/2005/02/13/58231.html

...but this isn't from WTC, it's from the Windsor Building in Madrid, which was burning. As far as I know, no one has ever suggested that it was bombed.
Oh, it was definitely bombed. As was this house in Australia last month:
"It sounded like a bomb had exploded with the noise and the house moving.
As was this car in Michigan:
"It sounded like a bomb going off," said Maryann Vaught, a shift supervisor at the Westborn Market.
And even worse, they nuked a plant in Cleveland!:
"It looked like they dropped an atomic bomb."
Will these evil NWO globalists ever stop?!
 
...The top part of each building collapsed onto the lower part of the building. Essentially, this was like dropping a 20-story building on top of another building. Before the crash, this upper structure exerted a constant downward force -- its weight -- on the superstructure below. Obviously, the lower superstructure was strong enough to support this weight. But when the columns collapsed, the upper part of the building started moving -- the downward force of gravity accelerated it. The momentum of an object -- the quantity of its motion -- is equal to its mass multiplied by its velocity. So when you increase the velocity of an object with a set mass, you increase its momentum. This increases the total force that the object can exert on another object.

To understand how this works, think of a hammer. Resting in your hand, it doesn't hurt you at all. But if you drop it on your foot, it can do some damage...
A very simple and elegant illustration. Good thinking.
 
Lost Goose

There you go! Keep introducing those unnecessary entities! You'll make a conspiracy theorist yet. ;)

(And the B2, being overburdened, was held up by a blimp! Witnesses were all silenced.)

The Spuce Goose never existed. Howard Hughs was a powerfull sycik and merely created the ilusion, that's why he went mad
 
Just thought I'd clarify this a little. Some contractors did report "molten metal" in the basements, and some said "molten steel." I have no reason to doubt that there was molten metal there. What is in question is what type, or what mixture of types, it was. The metal was never tested.

I doubt if it was steel. There was steel that was red and orange pulled from the wreckage, but that's a long way from molten, in terms of temperature.

The reports from the woo sites specifically say Molten Steel.

But then, the contracter who made the comment also says they were dipped with an excavator bucket. I don't think so.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html
 
It was a big building with many different occupants, is it such a stretch to imagine that some might have something flamable in a container. There were artists who might have paint thinner, commercial painters with the same, people with fluid for their lighters, toner cartridges, alcohol stashes, ammunition for guards' guns, and simple air escaping from pockets. Many, on their own, would not necessarily be heard on the street, but there are many things that can explode or sound like an explosion.

That's actually something I've wondered myself. What type of materials were actually stored in parts of the WTC buildings? I'd have to imagine that there would be a large variety of items that could explode or just feed the fire. I wonder if any type of manifest exists?

A second point - at this juncture, if the government were to release tapes of a plane hitting the Pentagon, would any CTs even believe it? They'd cite the long release time as proof that the administration's lights and magic guys were really digitally creating the images the whole time. Then they'd find digital artifacts and claim they were missles or squibs or orbs or fairies or some other nonsense. PLUS, they'd probably rag on the administration for creating the footage to use as an American psychological tool (patent pending) to further convince the sheep that an invasion of Iran is necessary. What rubbish.
 
That's actually something I've wondered myself. What type of materials were actually stored in parts of the WTC buildings? I'd have to imagine that there would be a large variety of items that could explode or just feed the fire. I wonder if any type of manifest exists?
You would be surprised at exactly what can become fairly dramatic explosions when subject to an intense fire.
Foodstuffs can become quite nasty where heated, a simple bag of crisps ("chips" if you will) will create a very LOUD (not powerful) explosion when they are heated to a high enough temperature, they also tend to fling burring fat in all directions. In large fires the most innocuous things can become very dangerous.
And before some CTer quotes me out of context, I am not suggesting that the twin towers where brought down by exploding crisp bags, I am just explaining how perfectly mundane items you would expect in any office building can cause loud bangs which may sound like bombs, and it's not always the obvious things either.
 
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