Make Mexico the 51th state! Good idea?

Dustin said:
What sorts of problems? Mexicans already WANT democracy. That's why they are coming over to america by the millions every year!
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The Mexicans already HAVE a Democracy, what they want is better wages (and they may end up illegally immigrating to Canada if they don't raise minimum wage here). Frankly, I don't think they'd go along with your plan - see, the world doesn't like Americans as much as it used to. Mexicans don't have to worry about being taken hostage when they fly. ;)

I like Bill Mahr's solution better: Make a Wal-Mart the entire length of the southern border. Americans can go through the front to to shop, Mexicans can come in the back door to work.

Making Mexico the 51st state is like buying a used car. You'll end up with all sorts of problems you didn't consider before.


P.S. I've heard a lot of politicians lately blaming the illegal immigrants for lowering wages in the U.S. They're not in control of minimum wage, Congress is - THEY'RE the ones responsible for keeping wages in America low.
 
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Dustin said:
First we would need to put out a vote to all of the Mexican people. Decide wether they want to become the 51th state or not. If they vote No,Then we seal the border and be done with it.
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You can pretty much stop there. Do you have any indication at all that Mexicans, in Mexico, are desirous of joining the United States? Puerto Rico doesn't even want to become a state, and they're among the most patriotic Americans!
 
No.

Let's consider what would happen in the U.S. government. The House of Representatives has 435 members. If we followed current law which limits the size to exactly 435, then adding 100,000,000 people would mean that the new state of Mexico would have 109 (or 1/4) of all the members of the House. I can't imagine the hue and cry that would arise from U.S. states as they were told that the number of represenatives from each current state would be reduced to 3/4 of their current levels.

Alternatively, one could raise the number of reps. to be proportional with the new population and then 25% of 580 seats would go to the single state of Mexico. Of course, in either of these situations, they form an insurmountable voting block.

A second reason against doing it would the decision of how to handle the language issue.

A third reason is that before one takes a vote in Mexico to test the acceptance of such an idea, one has to take a vote in the U.S. and I assure you that such an issue would not pass at all.
 
Plus another issue is the companies that may have sweatshops in Mexico for which they increase their profits by having the workers work for pennies a day. While I would love to see that changed, all it would do is cause companies to pack up and move to another land where the labor is cheap and cause more problems. Invading Mexico to solve 'the Problem' solves nothing at all.
 
brodski said:
</p> I'm sorry, can you provide any evidence for this? </p>Economic disparaties between the former east and west Germanies are huge, and eth shock to the German economy which reunification caused is still beign felt today.
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I recently lived in Germany and I noticed no differences between east and west.
 
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Couldn't we impliment some type of gradual process where Mexican schools start teaching students English opposed to Spanish?

Over time we would see the amount of english speakers in Mexico increasing and increasing.

Also we could make specific rules where Mexico doesn't get as many representives as other U.S. states until years later once the population has dispersed and the population of Mexico isn't over 30 million.


Why doesn't Peurto Rico want to become the 51th state?
 
Maybe I should start a thread called "Make the US a Canadian Territory!" ;)
 
Dustin said:
Couldn't we impliment some type of gradual process where Mexican schools start teaching students English opposed to Spanish?

Over time we would see the amount of english speakers in Mexico increasing and increasing.

Also we could make specific rules where Mexico doesn't get as many representives as other U.S. states until years later once the population has dispersed and the population of Mexico isn't over 30 million.
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So what you're suggesting is we take over a sovereign nation, deliberately set out to replace their language with ours, and deny them equal representation while doing so? Basically, make them second class citizens? Why the hell would they want that?

Why doesn't Peurto Rico want to become the 51th state?
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I'm not certain of this, but I think they don't pay federal taxes now.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I'm not certain of this, but I think they don't pay federal taxes now.
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They don't pay US income taxes, but most of the island's residents wouldn't anyway -- incomes there are small. They do pay federal payroll taxes like FICA and local taxes are very high.

The main reason is that in addition to being patriotic Americans they are patriotic Puerto Ricans. They1 like having their status.



1: "They" being defined here as the narrow majority in the last plebecite -- many Puerto Ricans do indeed want the territory to become a U.S. state, and a sliver wants it to be a fully independent country.
 
manny said:
"They" being defined here as the narrow majority in the last plebecite -- many Puerto Ricans do indeed want the territory to become a U.S. state, and a sliver wants it to be a fully independent country.
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Just like Newfoundland. They didn't join Canada until 1949, and that option only won by a 1% margin.
 
Also we could make specific rules where Mexico doesn't get as many representives as other U.S. states until years later once the population has dispersed and the population of Mexico isn't over 30 million.
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TragicMonkey said:
So what you're suggesting is we take over a sovereign nation, deliberately set out to replace their language with ours, and deny them equal representation while doing so? Basically, make them second class citizens? Why the hell would they want that?
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TM, you left out the dispersion of the population. Dustin, why do imagine that 79 million people living in Mexico would want to (or could afford to) move to the northern states? Or are you suggesting that we move them without their consent? This proposal is looking more and more like the U.S. response to Native Americans 200 years ago.
 
Dustin said:
Haven't you been watching the news lately? The whole controversy over imigration!

If Mexico was a 51th state then there would be no more problems with imigration of mexicans to America.

Mexico would be built up over a few years into how modern American states are today because of the massive circulation of money in and out of it.

No more corrupt Govt in Mexico. No more of those Problems.
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Yes, I'm sure the good ol' US of A would get rid of ALL corruption there. :rolleyes:
 
Dustin said:
I recently lived in Germany and I noticed no differences between east and west.
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All the economic data and analysis I have seen contradicts your observation. Did you engage in any economic studies whilst you lived in Germany or are you just posting from your "gut feeling"?
eastern Germany scores much higher (worse) on the indices of deprivation than western Germany, and that's leaving aside the shock to the German economy which reunification caused, and which Germany has not yet fully recovered from.
 
Mephisto said:
P.S. I've heard a lot of politicians lately blaming the illegal immigrants for lowering wages in the U.S. They're not in control of minimum wage, Congress is - THEY'RE the ones responsible for keeping wages in America low.
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Wow, that is singularly the WORST economic analysis I have ever seen in my life.

First off minimum wage law effects a very small portion of the labor force (<5% as I recall.) And thank heavens that's true! Minimum wage law creates all sorts of havoc on the tiny part of the economy it effects.

If you think that wages are determined by law why, then, let's legislate a $250/hr minimum wage and we'll all be rich! :rolleyes:

In case you didn't know this minimum wage is a form of price floor. It doesn't raise wages... it simply makes nominal pay rates below a certain level illegal.

Wages are determined in a free-market economy like everything else: supply and demand. And yes, if you increase the labor pool you're increasing supply and the price (wage rate) falls. This is like second week H.S. economics.

Aaron
 
delphi_ote said:
And if we annex the whole continent, we won't have any land borders to patrol!
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What's the matter with you delphi, have you no vision?
Live up to your custom title man!
You don't want the Americas, you want THE WORLD!
 
HeavyAaron said:
Wow, that is singularly the WORST economic analysis I have ever seen in my life.

First off minimum wage law effects a very small portion of the labor force (<5% as I recall.) And thank heavens that's true! Minimum wage law creates all sorts of havoc on the tiny part of the economy it effects.

If you think that wages are determined by law why, then, let's legislate a $250/hr minimum wage and we'll all be rich! :rolleyes:

In case you didn't know this minimum wage is a form of price floor. It doesn't raise wages... it simply makes nominal pay rates below a certain level illegal.

Wages are determined in a free-market economy like everything else: supply and demand. And yes, if you increase the labor pool you're increasing supply and the price (wage rate) falls. This is like second week H.S. economics.

Aaron
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It's not such a bad analysis if you consider the amount of central planning the proposed immigration controls would be. Once the government firmly controls supply and demand of the labor market, you may as well raise the minimum wage to $250/hr, 20 hr work weeks and so on. Everything else is small potatoes.

You also seem to be treating the economy as a zero sum game. If that were true, the US would be doing extremely poorly compared to 100 years ago, with the huge increase in population, immigration, and more women than ever in the work force. Yet by just about any measure, people in the US are doing much better, enjoying more goods and services at lower prices (adjusted for inflation) than ever.
 
Dustin said:
What sorts of problems? Mexicans already WANT democracy. That's why they are coming over to america by the millions every year!
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Theoretically its a democracy. I think they are really coming here because the US is wealthy and modern. Mexico is an impoverished, anarchic, disfunctional s#@$hole, like every other Latin country. They want to take advantage of what Americans have created. I'm surprised anyone wants to stay there.

Making Mexico a state would be a disaster, I think. with over a hundred million people, it would have a huge infuence over how the US is run politically and otherwise. Not a good thing.
 
shecky said:
You also seem to be treating the economy as a zero sum game. If that were true, the US would be doing extremely poorly compared to 100 years ago, with the huge increase in population, immigration, and more women than ever in the work force. Yet by just about any measure, people in the US are doing much better, enjoying more goods and services at lower prices (adjusted for inflation) than ever.
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You are perfectly correc, it's absolutely not a zero sum. I have to constantly disswade people of that. As you increase the labor force average wage rate does fall, but total wages, total labor, and total productivity all climb.

In a zero sum total wages, labor, and productivity would be held constant.

Aaron
 
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