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Snake found in broccoli

Long time lurker here, finding this thread as frustrating as the "Interesting" Ian threads. The same perverse and subjective "logic" is being applied, and it is doing my head in, frankly.

By CFLarsen's logic, I could describe my car as a an articulated lorry. Sure, people *might* understand that I was referring to my car, but only once they'd a) seen it, or b) realised that I was as mad as a bag of hammers.

To the vast majority, including those that work with, study, own, or are otherwise involved or interested in snakes, they *do not* have eyelids. Furthermore, to all those that have a working knowledge and understanding of language, calling either a leg a drumstick or a brille an eyelid, is utterly nonsensical.
 
Overheard down at the ranch:

Vet: Farmer Lee, I've examined all of your animals, and I have a few reports.
I sutured that barbed-wire injury in your Holstein's rump roast; one of your hogs had a gash in his bacon which I closed with surgical staples; and three of your chickens have fractured drumsticks, and will have to be butchered.

Oh, and one of your horses had an infection in her dog food and glue, but antibiotics should clear that up.
 
slingblade said:
Overheard down at the ranch:

Vet: Farmer Lee, I've examined all of your animals, and I have a few reports.
I sutured that barbed-wire injury in your Holstein's rump roast; one of your hogs had a gash in his bacon which I closed with surgical staples; and three of your chickens have fractured drumsticks, and will have to be butchered.

Oh, and one of your horses had an infection in her dog food and glue, but antibiotics should clear that up.
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Yeah, I knew a lamb with broken chops. And a turkey that got the stuffing kicked out of it. And a buffalo with a sprained wing.
 
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CFLarsen said:
Let's cut the crap here, OK?
An eyelid is a thin fold of skin and muscle that covers and protects an eye.
Wikipedia
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CFLarsen said:
Under this hypothesis, the fused, transparent eyelids of snakes are thought to have evolved to combat marine conditions (corneal water loss through osmosis), while the external ears were lost through disuse in an aquatic environment, ultimately leading to an animal similar in appearance to sea snakes of today.
SnakesWP
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I also refer to my post #34. It's not the movement that makes it an eyelid. The eyelid is simply what covers the eye for protection.
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CFLarsen said:
Wikipedia is a highly disputed source.
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CFLarsen said:
That's the problem with Wikipedia: Those who shout the loudest, wins.
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CFLarsen said:
It's an encyclopedia filled with errors.
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CFLarsen said:
Sure. But the inherent weakness of Wikipedia is that there are no authoritative body that decides what is right. Anyone can edit whatever they want. Including falsehoods.
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CFLarsen said:
There are many articles in Wikipedia that has false information.
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CFLarsen said:
And yet, you have no problems referring to Wikipedia here:


Hypocrite.
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CFLarsen said:
I refer you to Webster. We have to work from a common acceptance of the meaning of words. Otherwise, we create intentional confusion instead understanding.
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Webster and American Heritage definitions, courtesy of HarryKeogh:
HarryKeogh said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eyelid

eye·lid n.
Either of two folds of skin and muscle that can be closed over the exposed portion of the eyeball. Either of two folds of skin that can be moved to cover or open the eye

It seems that an eyelid has to move.

plus I think a herpetological society would know better than us.

Snakes lack eyelids. A snake's eyes are protected by a specialize clear scale called a brille. The brille is shed with the rest of the skin as a snake grows ...

www.wnyherp.org/herp-information/reptile/snake.php
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Mahatma, that was superb. I have a lump in my throat and can't continue.

:Banane09:
 
CFLarsen said:
This thread has gone from interesting to Alice-In-Wonderland.

A leg is not a leg. Guess I learned something new.
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I can't believe I'm still reading this. As rwguinn so rightly said, a subset is not the set.

Claus, do you have any understanding at all of set theory? Do you even understand the difference between a generic term and a specific term?

What is it about the many clear and understandable explanations of the semantics that you find so difficult to understand?

"Leg" is the generic term for the pelvic limbs of most mammals, birds and reptiles (and maybe more, it's getting late). (It is also used as a term for some - but not all - thoracic limbs of these species.)

"Drumstick" is the specific term for the disarticulated distal pelvic limb of a butchered fowl, especially after cooking.

What is it about this definition that makes you want to claim that you can therefore use the word "drumstick" to refer to any pelvic limb of any species you like?

Why do you repeatedly assert that these clear explanations of the nuances of the language, and why you can't just use vaguely related words any way you like, are capricious and arbitrary? The one being capricious and arbitrary is you. You are Humpty Dumpty.

Is your repeated lame response of "A leg is not a leg" some sort of surreal joke, or are you really so deficient in intelligence that you can't follow what so many people have repeatedly explained?
Claus, can we describe our eyelids as brille?

Can we describe the nictitating membranes of birds as brille? As haws?

Can we describe the haws of a cat as brille?
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And another one. Can we call the fins of dolphins, legs? Can we call our legs fins? Can we call our arms wings?
CFLarsen said:
What do you call the two protruding extremities that you walk on? "Legs" or "drumsticks" or "members"? All are allowed by the dictionary.
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I repeat (and I seem to see a lot of repetitions of this question in my future), please name the dictionary and produce the reference that states that "drumsticks" is acceptable usage for live human legs.

Claus, when you're in a hole, it's advisable to stop digging. The more you repeat "A leg is not a leg", the more credibility you lose. And remember, these posts are permanent. This is just embarrassing now.

Rolfe.
 
Well, it might be so, but all past evidence suggests that he's extremely fluent.

In any case, if you were arguing semantics in a language you weren't 100% au fait with, wouldn't you defer to the native speakers of that language rather than sit on a pedestal insisting that you were the only one who was right?

Hah, quite pertinent little item on Quote Unquote on Radio 4, at 12.05 today. Abraham Lincoln used to ask the question, "how many legs does a dog have, if you call a tail a leg?" Panellist said, the answer can't be five, can it? That's too easy. There has to be a catch.

Presenter said, when given the answer four, Lincoln would say, "Wrong. Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

How many drumsticks does Darat have, if he calls his legs drumsticks?

CFLarsen said:
What do you call the two protruding extremities that you walk on? "Legs" or "drumsticks" or "members"? All are allowed by the dictionary.
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Claus, please name the dictionary that states that "drumsticks" is acceptable usage for live human legs. Please provide full publication details, and the full text of the entry you are relying on for this assertion.

Rolfe.
 
SteveGrenard said:
So by this you theorize that it came in with plants imported from Japan? This is a tale repeated too often but with larger invasive alien species.
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We are by no means sure that it is a Biwadrilus, as we only have access to one picture, and that picture isn't very good. Apparently the worm is rare even in Japan, and it seems prudent to assume it has been introduced with some of the plants.

SteveGrenard said:
Few people realize that when they imported Royal Palms for the King Kamehaha School in Hawaii they brought in Typhlops with them that are still there, burrowed in the surrounding soils. Hawaii has a rep of having no ophidians while this little guy persists til this very day happily and blindly chomping away at slugs which I suppose nobody minds. The bilge water of large ships when ejected in waters other than where it was collected also transplant organisms and is a serious problem. Some parts of our Great Lakes are inundated with the alien Zebra Mussel as a result of this.

Invasive aliens like Graptemys scripta elegans and Rana catesbiena in Italy and elsewhere in Europe are a problem as is Bufo marinus, deliberately introduced into Australia. In Florida right now there are more than a dozen aliens veying for a niche in the ecosystem, crowding out indigenous species. There is a wholesale slaughter of two species of iguanids which are running amok there. As vegetarians and tree climbers, no fruit or leafy vegetable is safe from them.
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My master thesis - which is the whole reason I was out looking for worms in the first place - is on a similar subject. I have been studying an aquatic oligochaete (my supervisor has discouraged me to mention its name until the data are published) and found that it consists of three genetically very separated forms. One of them - which we term the "European form" as most of our samples of this clade are from Europe - seems to be invading both Japan and the US; in both cases, we believe it might be outcompeting local forms.

However, very few people really care if one kind of aquatic oligochaeta (it lives in leaf pockets and in sandy substrates, and I'd wager most people will never ever see one) is replaced locally with a morphologically identical one. It's different with larger and more popular animals (ones which can be made into cuddly and appealing stuffed toys, for example).

I heard the San Fransisco Bay is estimated to have had at least one known introduced species every year for the last hundred years, most of which are marine invertebrates. It's an amazing number.

SteveGrenard said:
Probably somewhat more reliable than The Sun.
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I have no idea. But I did get to see the worm. It was the longest worm I have ever seen, easily over 30 cm. And perhaps 3 mm thick. Its "face" had what looked like a toothless but somehow happy smile. A very weird worm.
 
Just bumping this thread, to note that although Claus has been posting elsewhere, he hasn't posted here for over 32 hours, and specifically not since Mahatma Kane Jeeves' masterly post. I'm sure he's not running away from the situation, so I'm just making a note.

It may be of some assistance to note that in another thread, Claus has attempted to explain that by "What do you call...." he actually meant "What would one call....", and by ".... that you walk on", he actually meant the "you" to include not only the human race in general, but also the Christmas turkey.

In my opinion, such poor self-expression is not a good sign when it comes to an argument on semantics, but then I can barely say hello in Danish, so there you go.

I have explained that the answer is still legs, as "members" is too broad (encompassing all limbs including arms and legs and the male sexual organ), and not even chickens walk on drumsticks, as the word specifically refers to a cut of meat from a dead and butchered and cooked fowl.

I have asked what relevance this has to the eyelids/brille debate, but I'm not sure if it's worth pressing for an answer on that.

I hope we might continue the eyelids/brille debate here, where more are participating. As well as wanting to know if Claus still maintains that Wikipedia is the definitive reference in this case, trumping even Webster's (considering what the Mahatma posted), I am interested to find out whether, if he thinks brille are eyelids, does this mean he also thinks that eyelids are brille? And if not why not?

Rolfe.
 
As in, since you do not fully understand the meanings of some words, you will emulate Humpty Dumpty and decide that they mean whatever you want them to mean?

Yes, it seems that's the case.

Rolfe.
 
All this talk of drumsticks somehow makes me think of Kent Hovind talking about kinds. I know it isn't really the same thing but well, there you go.
 
CFLarsen said:
This thread has gone from interesting to Alice-In-Wonderland.

A leg is not a leg. Guess I learned something new.
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you are being intentionally obtuse.*
An egg is not an omelette- untill it is cooked with cheese, meat, and/or veggies. A leg is not a drumstick untill it is (A) coated with flour and spices and fried, or (b) placed in an oven, with or without spices and flavorings (or flavourings), or (c) grilled, broiled, poached or otherwise cooked and removed from the remainder of the fowl.

* known as absurdly stupid in many circles
 
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