The Gospel

[Genesius]

To answer Shemp's question, I would say that Kurious Kathy has indeed converted me. I can at least say I'm more of an agnostic now than at any time in my life. In fact, considering I don't even attend Church anymore, the only thing left is the final declaration.

 

[articulett]

It's true that I have never believed what the Muslims believe. In fact the more I find out about the Koran and how it is in direct conflict with the true Word of God(the Holy Bible) the more upset I get about it. But I do not or will not ever make a claim stating I hate Muslims. Why do they hate Christians?

And again I would like to share something I shared on another site that states my being turned around from my pagan beliefs in the past...

I have learned enough from the mistakes of my past. New Agers take the view points of both polytheism, and pantheism. I had to ask God to show me the way out of believing those lies. When I asked God to show me what He saw in my own life, He did take the blinders off.

"I guess that's why scripture says He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (Although in my own case I think I was just desperate enough that God did answer my request.) I would just advise others to be careful when you ask for something from God, you just might get it! I'm not sure I was ready to see what God revealed to me, but I'm glad He did.
"Sin is real, and the devil is a liar!"

At least now I am truely experiencing God in my life, and it's all because of Jesus. His light shines through the darkness of this world.

1 John 2:22-24
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

His Word is how we know Him. Do you believe the Bible?

No. Do you believe the Koran? How about the Torah? Tried the book of Mormon? How about Dianetics? Muslims don't hate you, they just think you worship a false god-and that is very immoral to them. They pity you, and think you will go to hell. They feel pretty much about you the way feel about them. They believe their god is the true one and they will die for him to show their faith. They think that America is populated by materialistic, imperialistic, self righteous, immoral people who worship false gods. I'm sure your view of them as a group is no more flattering.

The bible was written by humans, Kathy. Not gods...the writers of the bible speak of the world as though it was flat! Your fairytale god forgot to mentions anything that science later discovered--important stuff. Your fairytale god is tremendously wasteful--230,000,000 sperm per ejaculation? Why, if he's the designer? Why all the birth defects and suffering and cruelty of nature? Why all the cruelty in the bible! So what if you prayed to know god is real. Next time ask him to answer these questions. Lots of people hear god in thier head...some believe they are god or Jesus or reincarnated. Charlie Manson thinks he's a prophet. People claim to "channel" dead people. People used to do human sacrifices for all sorts of gods and they killed people who didn't believe in the right god or whom they believed to be evil or possessed (mental illness seems to look like possession to zealots). The Mormons tell you to pray and read the book of Mormon--they swear that if you pray you will know that Mormonism is true. Same old scam.

Faith and feelings and prayer are really go ways to fool yourself and comfort yourself--but it's a really stupid, stupid way to find truth. If you had asked Allah to show you the truth, you'd be reading the Koran. If you asked your "higher self" to guide you, you'd be spewing new age pap and feeling that it was true because it "resonated" with you. You'd be telling us how great you feel now that you've aligned your chakras.

The bible endorses incest, Kathy. It tells christians to stone those who believe in false gods. I'm glad you are so deliriously happy--but kids are similarly happy when they believe Santa is coming.

What I want to know is why you'd preach at a skeptic site--a site where people are especially interested in critical thinking, science, truth, and the ways people fool themselves. Why not go read your bible and shun technology like the Amish? Why not find out which branch of Christianity your invisible sky daddy tells you is "the truth"--the right "brand" of christianity (since the christians never can seem to decide--are you fundie? catholic? Young earth creationist? apologetic? Jehovah Witness? Evangelical. Luthern? Mormon? Amish? Baptist? 7th day Adventist? Christian Scientist, Mennonite, non-denominational, presbyterian?) Why didn't your magical god just make it clear and easy for everyone? Aren't you afraid you will go to hell for reading the words of (gasp!) ATHEISTS? You better ask your happy-making god if it's okay...

Although posting here may help you convince yourself, I think you're making the rest of us glad that we've left such fairytales behind.

I, personally, see no evidence that consciousness of any kind can exist outside the brain--not gods, devils, demons, succubi, ghosts, spirits, souls, invisible aliens, etc. I think they're all illusions. I think your beliefs are as silly and wrong as you think moonies are. I always wonder how people can shine a skeptic light on other peoples religions or goofy beliefs, but they're own beliefs are off limits to such scrutiny.

 

[articulett]

He exposed the enemies in my life. Have you ever had to face your demons?
Well I have and I am now here to share my testimony that Jesus does truely save people. Coming out of the darkness into the light is the best thing anyone of us can experience!
I was once held captive by so many things, now I'm free. I no longer live in fear, I know God is true. When the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!

But when Allah sets you free you get 72 virgins.

The Heavens Gate group felt so happy and joyful regarding their beliefs that they eagerly ate poison so they could board a spaceship behind a comet.

Religion is the only demon I ever had to face--never could get it to make sense--never could brainwash myself to "feel" truth...never could understand why one faith was more likely to be true than another...

I am much happier not worrying about hell. It seems a ludicrous, nonsensical and manipulative concept. You feel like this world is crummy; I feel like this world is wondrous. You know god is real; Muslims know allah is real. Kids know santa is real. How do they know? They can "feel" it.

 

[LotusMegami]

Polytheists are less likely to start wars over religion. They have little reason to. You worship your gods, I'll worship mine.

And maybe I'll borrow a couple of yours, if they're really cool.

 

[articulett]

Kathy, since you started posting on this board, have you converted even ONE person to your way of thinking? If you have, please point to that person's posts.

More importantly, Have you (KK) heard anything anyone else has said, or are you too busy saying "my god is real, my god is real," over and over in your head?

I imagine Kathy thinking that maybe one person will say, "by golly, Kathy sure does seem happy and smart--what IS her secret?--give me some of that! Say, I never considered that the Bible might be true or that god might be real--now I see the light! Pass me the Gideon's!!"

If I were going to pick a religion based on results, I think I'd go with Scientology--look at the rich practitioners--Tom Cruise, Lisa Presley, John Travolta. But the Jews seem more intellectual...yet what better way to be "born again" but to believe in reincarnation like the Hindus and Buddhists? Unitarians seem like a peaceful group. The Raelians are attractive, but nutty.

Fortunately (or unfortunately for those who believe "ignorance is bliss"), I have completely lost my ability to convince myself that crap is true. I'm an evidence junkie. I like truth. I don't want to be fooling myself. And when I read Kathy, I think, "there but for the grace of godlessness, go I...

Besides, to me it seems that atheists, as a group, are the smartest, funniest, and happiest of all--oh, and did I mention sexy? inspiring? depthful?

 

[davefoc]

... --230,000,000 sperm per ejaculation ....

I had no idea that the number was any where near that large but it seems that you are roughly correct. According to this site 100,000,000 or so might be more like the average number. Perhaps you were using your personal totals though.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/semenandsperm.htm

 

[scimystic]

It's true that I have never believed what the Muslims believe. In fact the more I find out about the Koran and how it is in direct conflict with the true Word of God(the Holy Bible) the more upset I get about it. But I do not or will not ever make a claim stating I hate Muslims. Why do they hate Christians?

And again I would like to share something I shared on another site that states my being turned around from my pagan beliefs in the past...

I have learned enough from the mistakes of my past. New Agers take the view points of both polytheism, and pantheism. I had to ask God to show me the way out of believing those lies. When I asked God to show me what He saw in my own life, He did take the blinders off.

I guess that's why scripture says He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (Although in my own case I think I was just desperate enough that God did answer my request.) I would just advise others to be careful when you ask for something from God, you just might get it! I'm not sure I was ready to see what God revealed to me, but I'm glad He did.
"Sin is real, and the devil is a liar!"

At least now I am truely experiencing God in my life, and it's all because of Jesus. His light shines through the darkness of this world.

1 John 2:22-24
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.


His Word is how we know Him. Do you believe the Bible?

Kathy,

This is an amusing diversion, but otherwise not getting us very far. Could you go home and get your big brother? Your priest perhaps, or your dad. Anyone who has read and understood at least some of the best modern attempts to construct a rational justification for your position. There have been some pretty clever ones (Plantinga's 'Warranted Belief' concept is my favorite) and with such a person we could have an interesting argument.

Regards,

S

 

[UrsulaV]

Kathy,

This is an amusing diversion, but otherwise not getting us very far. Could you go home and get your big brother? Your priest perhaps, or your dad. Anyone who has read and understood at least some of the best modern attempts to construct a rational justification for your position. There have been some pretty clever ones (Plantinga's 'Warranted Belief' concept is my favorite) and with such a person we could have an interesting argument.

Regards,

S

Yeah, send your husband back. He was way more articulate.

 

[sackett]

The Christians have got nothing on these guys

I hope it’s not tedious of me to bring up Cargo still again, but it has some bearing on KK’s abject believerism.

This link

http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/february/john.php

will take you to a recent article about the John Frum cult on Tanna, an island in the Vanuatu Group (formerly the New Hebrides).

The John Frum religion has ceremonies, oral traditions, a mysterious prophet, a holy site (a volcano, no less!), schisms, heresies, the whole toolbox. It may even have a few martyrs, or it will someday if the authorities don’t step in.

Kathy, can you, without preaching and mouthing bible verses, show how Frumism differs from any other relgion, including yours?

 

[kmortis]

I keep wondering when we're going to see the Second Coming of Christian Dude (aka axezilla) in here defending his lil' lady?

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Kathy, can you, without preaching and mouthing bible verses, show how Frumism differs from any other relgion, including yours?

I'll do it for her:

Christianity has brought hope and peace to the lives of billions of people across all cultural, ethnic, and national boundaries.

Frumism MAY have brought hope and peace to 12 people.

 

[ceo_esq]

Kathy, can you, without preaching and mouthing bible verses, show how Frumism differs from any other relgion, including yours?

I should think verses from a sacred text would be highly relevant to an analysis of the distinctions between one religion and another. Or so I seem to recall from comparative religion class. Why exclude Bible verses?

 

[kmortis]

I should think verses from a sacred text would be highly relevant to an analysis of the distinctions between one religion and another. Or so I seem to recall from comparative religion class. Why exclude Bible verses?

If she was being asked to defend that Frumism isn't compatable with Christianity, then quoting scripture would be not only welcome, but necessary. However, she's being asked for an opinion on another religion, with the prohibition included becuse it's been seen in hte past that she has a hard time actually forming a cogent thought without resorting to quoting the bible. It's rather obvious what the Bible has to say about Frumism (it's against it), but the question was asked of KK, not the Bible.

 

[wolfgirl]

Lots of people hear god in thier head.

This is an excellent point and one that is easy to gloss over.

Don't people of every religion (or most religions) claim to hear god, by either actually physically hearing him or receiving some sort of revelation from him? If there is only one god, are we to assume that he only talks to those who believe in him, ie. christians? Who is talking to all of those other people? They would swear that it's their god, not kathy's, that talks to them. Why are we supposed to believe that the christians are actually hearing god, while all of the others are mistaken or perhaps even psychotic?

 

[bluess]

Or Joan of Arc?

 

[sackett]

...Christianity has brought hope and peace to the lives of billions of people across all cultural, ethnic, and national boundaries.

Frumism MAY have brought hope and peace to 12 people.

Chritianity has forbidden millions of people to drink, dance, play cards, sing, or even enjoy music. John Frum encourages the Tannese to drink kava and dance all night.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Chritianity has forbidden millions of people to drink, dance, play cards, sing, or even enjoy music. John Frum encourages the Tannese to drink kava and dance all night.

Speaking for KK, again:

Moral relativism. Drinking, dancing, playing cards, and music have been used to spread distrust, hatred, and murder throughout human history.

John Frum encourages sinful, distructive behavior.

I win.

 

[sackett]

...Drinking, dancing, playing cards, and music have been used to spread distrust, hatred, and murder throughout human history.

John Frum encourages sinful, destructive behavior.

I win.

Millions of Christians, including some ostensibly strict puritans, are as we speak drinking, dancing, rogering, etc. as if there were no tomorrow. They aren’t any less Christians for all that.

And I wish I had a dollar for every Muslim taking a drink right now somewhere in the world. I wish I had a nickel.

Yes, you win when it comes to John Frum and kava. I’ve never tried it,* but they say that overindulgence can makim long heap s’it plenny too muss.

As for Papuans dancing, gee, where’s the harm? They aren’t lewd Polynesians shaking their money-makers and singing bawdy old hulas.

*If I ever do, it’ll be chewed by buxom topless ladies in grass skirts, the good old-fashioned way!

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Millions of Christians, including some ostensibly strict puritans, are as we speak drinking, dancing, rogering, etc. as if there were no tomorrow. They aren’t any less Christians for all that.

Depending on which part of the Bible you're looking at, they are indeed less Christian for doing that stuff.

Just cause lots of people do certain things doesn't make it okay, from a religious persepctive, or qualify as beneficial to mankind.

And according to your logic, because SO MANY PEOPLE are Christian, maybe that is evidence that Christianity is the true religion.

See my point: it goes both ways.

Christians, like KK, think they are right despite the evidence because so many others have experienced positive things upon embracing Christianity. Based on one's personal experience, you can believe and validate whatever you want. Press them for evidence, and they use those experiences or other peoples similar experiences as proof. (Look at KK's post if you don't believe me).

So, Sackett, when you asked KK for evidence without preaching or using Biblical verses, what will she use? Personal experience.

I, and others, have tried to show KK that using personal experience as evidence can go anyway you want it to. But that point has never popped into KK's mind as evidenced by her posts thus far.

And until that point is brought home, I fear that she'll continue along this form of dialogue or "debate", so to speak.

That's why I responded to you the way I did, because if I didn't, she would, and around and around we'll go.

 

[Ducky]

4 pages of insanity and puppy wars with kmortis and this thread still didn't die. (Starting on page 29 or so with the huge derail with His Royal Pedanticness, ceo_esq.)


Stop feeding the troll, people. If you want to discuss things of interest and in an intelligent way, start a new thread. Do not give Kathy the satisfaction of watching this thread grow any more.


Now who's got a f***ing puppy/kitten/recipe to share?