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Immigration Issues and Racism.

Tmy

Philosopher
Tmy
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
6,487
Watching all this immigration coverage I cant help but notice all the overt racism throughout the discussion. Instead of using the term "illegal aliens' why dont they just replace it with "Mexicans".

On Fox news there was this Congresswomen who was going on and on about the need for a security fense and so on. At the same time Fox was showing TV clips of people sneeking acrooss the boarder.

Isnt that a rather narrow minded view on illegal immigration??? Im in the North East and while there are many illegals there are few Mexicans. Everyone just assumes illegals = mexicans who run across the boarder.

I dont know the numbers but from what I see most illegals come from all sorts of places (south america, europe, asia) AND they didnt sneak in, the came in legally and then overstayed their visas. How would a security fenses stopp those illegals. Shouldnt the focus be on more INS (or is it ICE now) agents to hunt down the overstayers. As far as security goes, thats the MO of terrorists. They dont slide in illegally, the come right in the front door.

End of rant.
 
Okay, you're in the Northeast. Ofcouse there aren't that many illegal Mexicans around your parts.

There's an estimated 11-12 million illegal immigrants. I'm guessing the percentage is mostly Mexican.

Border security has been poor for decades. So ofcourse there are tons of illegal Mexicans. We have porous borders to the North but we just don't have millions of illegal Canadians.

The issue is border security and what to do with the million of illegal immigrants that are already here.

I'm sure once we have millions of internationals overstaying visas instead of millions of illegal immigrants coming over the Mexico-US border, you'll hear about beefing up INS in the news.
 
The question I have is just who is it disrespecting American law, Latinos or unscrupulous employers - see:Americans - who benefit from illegal immigration?
 
The problem is that the vast majority of illegal imigrants ARE Mexicans. I don't see how this is "racist".
 
Come on now, denying an individual's right to leech off the US taxpayer is tantamount to Nazisim. Mexican citizens have the right to the same government benefits Americans do.
 
zenith-nadir said:
The question I have is just who is it disrespecting American law, Latinos or unscrupulous employers - see:Americans - who benefit from illegal immigration?
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Both. And if nobody addresses the unscrupulous employers, what right do we have to criminalize illegal aliens?

If we actually enforced ALL of our own laws, we wouldn't have such a problem. But Department of Labor has never had the resources to chase down contractors knowingly employing illegals and the US-Mexico border has never had adequate security to keep illegals out.

Now, Congress and Bush want to circumvent the laws that make illegal border crossing okay by granting guest worker status while acting like they're going to get tough with border security for anyone else who thinks they can come over illegal and claim US residency.

Is there a minimum wage for a "guest worker"? Or there required benefits for "guest workers"?

And if so, wouldn't the unscrupulous employers want illegals to not be "guest workers" so they can make more money off illegals? Unscrupulous employers don't respect laws or basic human rights now. All the crap going on in DC is doing nothing to address this one problem, and so I think the cycle will continue.
 
Skeptic said:
The problem is that the vast majority of illegal imigrants ARE Mexicans. I don't see how this is "racist".
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How do you know the above is true. Does anyone have any stats on who make up the illegals?
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
Both. And if nobody addresses the unscrupulous employers, what right do we have to criminalize illegal aliens?
Click to expand...

Not only does the unscrupulous employer benefit, but so does the illegal employee who agrees to take the job, and the customers of the the unscrupulous employer. This covers a whole lotta folks.

SuperCoolGuy said:
If we actually enforced ALL of our own laws, we wouldn't have such a problem. But Department of Labor has never had the resources to chase down contractors knowingly employing illegals and the US-Mexico border has never had adequate security to keep illegals out.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't enforcement of the laws. It's that the laws are too stupid to begin with. They begin with the premise that the government can control supply and demand, and everything else that follows such a premise is fundamentally broken. The laws ignore reality, that the US demands a labor pool eagerly supplied by a estimated 11-12 million illegal aliens.

SuperCoolGuy said:
Now, Congress and Bush want to circumvent the laws that make illegal border crossing okay by granting guest worker status while acting like they're going to get tough with border security for anyone else who thinks they can come over illegal and claim US residency.

Is there a minimum wage for a "guest worker"? Or there required benefits for "guest workers"?
Click to expand...


If the "guest worker" program is just another way for the government to control markets, it's unlikely to succeed.

SuperCoolGuy said:
And if so, wouldn't the unscrupulous employers want illegals to not be "guest workers" so they can make more money off illegals? Unscrupulous employers don't respect laws or basic human rights now. All the crap going on in DC is doing nothing to address this one problem, and so I think the cycle will continue.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't paint all employers of illegal immigrants as unscrupulous or human rights violators. Most simply want to hire reliable, cost effective workers. If workers filling that description are illegal, so be it.
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/Ill_Report_1211.pdf

See page 9, table B:
As of the year 2000, Mexico is the country of origin for 69% of illegal residents.
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hey thanks for the info.


I hear a report that last year, not one business was fined for using illegals. Thats like only busting the drug users and doing nothing to the drug dealers.

Its all bullflop anyone. You know somthing is wrong when the Dems and Repubs kinda fall on the same side of an issue.
 
Well here's an unpopular racist observation. Why is the unemployment rate so high for blacks at a time when Mexican immigrants are finding work all over the country? I understand all the issues of accepting lower paid jobs but isn't that what one should do when there is no other job available?

I doubt you can claim that one discriminates against blacks when offering manual labor jobs. Perhaps one cannot get the nanny position, but why not the gardener?

Again, I'm not addressing all the other ethical issues involved here like why shouldn't both groups have decent employment opportunities. The complaints about displaced New Orleanians whining that mail in ballots are not adequate and polling places are their right got me thinking. They have a lot to legitimately gripe about, but mail in ballots hardly seems like one to put at the top of the list.
 
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skeptigirl said:
Well here's an unpopular racist observation. Why is the unemployment rate so high for blacks at a time when Mexican immigrants are finding work all over the country? I understand all the issues of accepting lower paid jobs but isn't that what one should do when there is no other job available?

I doubt you can claim that one discriminates against blacks when offering manual labor jobs. Perhaps one cannot get the nanny position, but why not the gardener?
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An interesting point. A couple of thoughts :

Is it perhaps easier to be an illegal, a ghost, than to be a legal 'Murrican and drop off the IRS radar? From an employer's point of view, when they're taking on employees "off-the-books", a ghost never officially existed if officialdom comes knocking. A legit 'Murrican, on the other hand, is at least a documented, official person.

Support networks. I doubt many Mexicans - or Guatamalans, etc - head off across the border without some connections, through family and friends, that can hook them up with the system. Can the same be said of a black guy from N'Orleans heading off to California to do field-work off-the-books? Who does he know there, who does his family know, how does he establish himself? There are places where day-labourers congregate to sell and day-employers come to buy. How does a black stranger fare when he turns up, if he even finds one? I dunno, but I'm thinking not well.
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
Border security has been poor for decades. So ofcourse there are tons of illegal Mexicans.
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Mexican border security was effectively nil by 1848 and not great before that, remember the Alamo? A new line was drawn on the map, lots of legal Mexicans became legal 'Murricans, but not much changed on the ground. Family and clan relationships, established economies, they carried on. Much change has occurred since then, but Old Mexico has changed with it.
 
CapelDodger said:
An interesting point. A couple of thoughts :

Is it perhaps easier to be an illegal, a ghost, than to be a legal 'Murrican and drop off the IRS radar? From an employer's point of view, when they're taking on employees "off-the-books", a ghost never officially existed if officialdom comes knocking. A legit 'Murrican, on the other hand, is at least a documented, official person.
...
Click to expand...
So are you saying blacks would be turned down for jobs here that illegals would take? Somehow I doubt that is the main factor which differs between the working and unemployed. Construction, domestic, and food service jobs are often paid under the table whether you have a legit SSN or not.
 
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