The Gospel

[delphi_ote]

a sentient wombat

Wouldn't that mean the wombat had already snacked on an apple? If that was the case, wouldn't churches be full of stained glass windows depicting a divine wombat nailed to a cross?

 

[delphi_ote]

What if he is a train engineer? are those real engineers?

I don't think it would work on them. There's something about taking vector calculus, differential equations, and engineering statistics that does something to your brain.

But you should really try it. I was in the engineering school for undergrad, and it worked on every major. Even Aerospace Engineering majors, and we all know they aren't real engineers.

 

[kurious_kathy]

So by your standards (that people must accept Jesus as their savior, blah, blah, blah), in order not to suffer eternal damnation, you are condemning most people on Earth (including millions of children) to hell for something they couldn't possibly even do anything about. If they never even heard of your boy wonder, JC, and his big, bad dad, how can they possibly save themselves from eternal suffering and torment?

Your god would have them all burn in eternal flames for something over which they have absolutely no control.

And that's the question that several people here are trying to get you to answer.

Well if God is Sovereign and absolutely just then shouldn't we just trust that God knows who are His and who are not. He can and has sent an angel to reach someone when needed. That you will find in several areas of scripture.

And when it comes to subject of whether little children are saved, there are many Christians that believe small children who die young are automatically in heaven being they never came to an age of being accountable for receiving Christ.( This idea is also towards babies who had been aborted) Either way I believe God knows which human beings will accept or reject Him.

As far as remote parts of the world and other countries that don't hear the Gospel...There are many missionaries out there trying to get the word out!

Have you heard of the book,"The End Of The Spear" I haven't read it but I have heard it is a true story about a missionary family that after the one tribal leaders killed the dad, the son was able to reach Him and He came to faith and repented. I guess they are now here in the states going to churches and sharing their testimony of how God turned this guys village and his life around. I'm hoping I'll get a chance to meet them sometime. Anyways this is just one small example of what God can do through His saving grace!

I've also heard some other incredible testimonies of forgiveness and redemption that is sometimes even in a humanistics point of view is hard to fanthom. Never the less lives are changed and miracles do happen.

Another story that comes to mind is one of a woman who after a drunk driver killed her husband and was sent to jail, she went out of her way to visit the guy in jail and tell him she forgave him. If you ask me this a good example of someone who is spirit filled and living a life that shares God's love with others. It's hard to imagine on our own strength being able to forgive someone who killed someone you loved and needed. And yet she did it!

So my question to many of you here would be if you were faced with the same choice on forgiving others...

First the son of the missionary dad who forgave the tribal leader for killing his dad, and Second the woman who forgave the drunk driver for killing her husband....

Would you want or even be able to on your own to to forgive these people? Or do you think you would stay angry the rest of your lives at those people who had a direct effect on your personal life falling apart?

 

[delphi_ote]

I haven't read it but I have heard it is a true story...
I've also heard some other incredible testimonies...
Another story that comes to mind...

Oooh! My turn!

I haven't read it, but I have heard it is a true story about this short guy whose uncle gave him a ring. Since his uncle gave it to him, he had to travel a long way to return the ring to the place it came from. He had lots of difficulties along the way. One of his friends even tried to steal it from him! In the end, he returned the ring and still forgave his uncle and his friend for all the trouble they caused.

Ask yourself, could you forgive your uncle? It was only through the grace of Ilúvatar that the young man forgave his uncle and his friend.

I've also heard some incredible testimonies. This boy got lost in the desert with his mom. They lived in a cave for years. Later, their friend found them in the cave and tried to kill the boy's mom. The boy stopped his friend and explained why he was wrong to try to kill his mom. The boy forgave his friend, and they were close until the day his friend died. His mom also forgave the friend, and they fell deeply in love.

Ask yourself, could you forgive your friend? It was only through the grace of Muad'dib that the young man and his mother forgave their friend.

Another story comes to mind. A father and a son got in a vicious fight. The father cut off the son's hand. Later, while fighting again, the son defeated the father. Instead of killing him, the son talked to his father and they forgave each other.

Ask yourself, could you forgive your father? It was only through the grace of The Force that the young man forgave his father.

I think my version is more credible.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

what would be your reaction if you did see someone brought back from the dead??

Modern doctors do it all the time, but it's called a "defibrillator," not a "miracle."

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

It is written in the Bible

As many have asked you before, what makes the Damn Bible factual?

How do you know they didnt. I'd imagine Lazarus's relatives wrote in their diary that night "dear diary.. looks like we wont be getting that inheritance for a while now.."

Assuming that, if they existed at all, Lazarus's relatives weren't illiterate like most of the denizens of the ancient world.

Otherwise, this is a very bad dodge. Answer the f---ing question.

People still write about the world wars now. I dont see your point here.

The point is that the the Gospels originated decades, if not centuries, after Jesus allegedly existed. They weren't exactly written on the spot as the events occured. Therefore, their accuracy is suspect.

I wasnt aware they did. Let me go and check.

What? You're not able to rattle off scripture like some gorram tape recorder? Some Bible-beater you are.

 

[davefoc]

Way to go KK, 44 pages and still going.

I've started threads where I haven't gotten a single response, not even a pity response and I'm pretty sure I've never started a thread that made it to 10 pages.

And a few interesting revelations along the way. Randfan studied the bible for 20 years, who knew? It would have been interesting to get RF's views in one of the was Jesus a real historical character threads. Or maybe best of all one of the Noah's ark threads. Those are my favorites. I never get tired of thinking about old Noah traipsing around Australia looking for playtypuses.

Way back to the little dustup between ceo_esq and ossai: I thought that one of you might have noticed along the way that you were both right. There isn't a provable contradiction based on a somewhat strained literal reading of the passages (ceo_esq was right) but there is an obvious contradiction when the passages are read with routine english assumptions about what the sentences mean (Ossai was right).

And given my view of the world which is that both passages were just made up stuff many years after the event the distinction isn't all that important.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Surely you are kidding and are not actually saying that because something is written in the Bible, that's proof that it actually happened? Stuff written in old books is not proof of ANYTHING.

Hey wolfgirl think about this one little bit of info...People have authored many different books, God only had to write one book. Men filled with the Holy Spirit were used in the process, but it is still the most popular, and the most unique book ever written.
The Bible still holds so much wisdom and understanding that many of us still refer to it for spiritual lessons that we can apply to our lives!
All I can say is I know we can trust in the Word of God!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[RandFan]

Hey wolfgirl think about this one little bit of info...People have authored many different books, God only had to write one book.

Presupposition.

Men filled with the Holy Spirit were used in the process...

Which explains the incest, gore, killing, contradictions, inanity, etc.. Do you even know all that is in the bible? Most Christians simply do not.

...but it is still the most popular...

Fallacy, this proves that it is from an evolutionary stand point fit (See Dennet).

...and the most unique book ever written.

Subjective.

The Bible still holds so much wisdom and understanding...

How many bits of wisdom do you think you could list?

1.) When you boil it down there really isn't all that much there.
2.) Many of the precepts and concepts that some feel are enlightened existed prior to them being recorded in the bible.

All I can say is I know we can trust in the Word of God!

Why? He did such a lousy job of creation. He condemned millions to eternal torment without any chance whatsoever. He ran my urethra through my prostrate, a gland that tends to swell with age making it difficult to urinate. A child could have designed a better waste disposal system.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Meaningless drivel. Your spouting nonsense in the wrong place. Tell us the world is flat. Tell us the Sun revolves around the Earth. It's just as silly. You think your words have some mystical power. They don't. They are simply rhetorical, childish and ignorant.

How's this Abracadabra. Sim Sim Salabim. Open sesame.

Logic Kathy, logic. 1+1=2. Something that is empirical, demonstrable, believable by anyone without speaking code, in tongues or mystic nonsense. Do you have any of that?

Kathy, if you can treat us as adults and respect us as people and not patronize us we will listen to what you have to say. But if you are going to spout such idiocy then I can only say that we have had our fill, what with Iacchus, Lifegazer and a slew of others.

"Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up" --Melvin Udall

 

[LotusMegami]

Read kathy's posts makes me want to read some of my Dawkins or maybe my philosophy textbook, just to clean out my brain with the waters of reason.

Iacchus makes me want to read Japanese, because with an effort I can grasp the basic gist of a paragraph - something I can't do with Iacchus posts.

 

[kmortis]

So why did create the... gah. Nevermind. Efficiency and logic were apparently not design constraints. Even a Civil Engineer could come up with a better plan, and they're not even real engineers.

P.S. Want to watch someone throw a fit? Walk up to an engineering major and say, "What's your major?" Whatever their response ("Mechanical Engineering" or "Electrical Engineering,") reply, "Oh. So you're not a real engineer."

P.S.S. You might want to duck after you say that last part.

Delphi,

**Throws a stone**
[mumble]tell me that I'm not a real engineer, will he....[/mumble]

 

[kmortis]

Oooh! My turn!


I think my version is more credible.

Well, yeah. At least we know who wrote YOUR version.

 

[Spidey13]

As far as remote parts of the world and other countries that don't hear the Gospel...There are many missionaries out there trying to get the word out!

Nope. Didn't answer the question.

 

[kmortis]

Have you heard of the book,"The End Of The Spear" I haven't read it but I have heard it is a true story about a missionary family that after the one tribal leaders killed the dad, the son was able to reach Him and He came to faith and repented. I guess they are now here in the states going to churches and sharing their testimony of how God turned this guys village and his life around. I'm hoping I'll get a chance to meet them sometime. Anyways this is just one small example of what God can do through His saving grace!

Kathy,
Have you heard about "conversion at the end of a sword"? Hmm? Well, it's how a goodly portion of Europe was converted to Christianity. Either accept the Loving God, or die. Really nice stuff, don't you think? Perfect example of a loving god. He could have stepped in and stopped it, don't you think? I mean, according to you, he was able to step in and stop the evil nastys in Soddom, right?

 

[Mephisto]

Well I myself always think about the day when I meet God and am asked this one important question. "What did you do with my Son?"

Me too! That way I can ask, "Do I look like a priest? I didn't touch your son!"

 

[Mephisto]

Kathy,
Have you heard about "conversion at the end of a sword"? Hmm? Well, it's how a goodly portion of Europe was converted to Christianity. Either accept the Loving God, or die. Really nice stuff, don't you think? Perfect example of a loving god. He could have stepped in and stopped it, don't you think? I mean, according to you, he was able to step in and stop the evil nastys in Soddom, right?

I wonder if Kathy has heard about the Inquisition, the Crusades, the witch burnings in Europe and the Salem Witch Trials? Christians ALWAYS have a great excuse when their God seems asleep at the wheel. BTW, kmortis - have you seen the movie "The Crucible?" It was adapted from an Arthur Miller play. I just caught it on HBO recently - it stars Winona Ryder and Daniel Day Lewis. This is an EXCELLENT example of how God rewards the faithful!

 

[Ossai]

kurious_kathy

It does make me think about a few things like you are obviously referencing knowlege from man perspective. Knowlege according to mans wisdom. Does it really give us all the answers? I myself say absolutely not!

What wisdom have you gleamed through supernatural means? Remember all natural means have to be ruled out first. Just give us a short list.

I have heard it said that we all want to be in a place where our theology and philosophy meet. But if you are trying to tell me that the soul does not exsist, then I would have to say I think you are being deceived!

If you have evidence for the existence of s soul, present it. I’m always open to new evidence. So far you and your ilk have managed none whatsoever.

We all have a certain amount of built in knowlege that the soul does indeed exsist.

I checked and nope, no built in knowledge here.

You want evidence, well perhaps you aren't being open to see how God does work in our world.

So I’ll only believe your evidence if I already believe in your god. Do you honestly not see the inherent contradiction there?

Our intutive nature and our intellectual being both co-exsist. So do humans with our creator.

I believe everyone who denies God exsist has just not looked for Him hard enough!

Thirteen years not long enough? I don’t care what your personal beliefs are, show me the evidence. Until you do that, you don’t rank any higher than the guy wearing a robe, carrying a six foot cross and shouting on the street corner.

The one and only true religion will be the one that reveals and proclaims that God has provided full redemption(paid in full) for sinners. This comes about by His grace(undeserved favour) alone.

You are proclaiming your laziness and indifference to humanity.
Shall we have some fun and point out the bible verse that equally declares that salvation requires works as well as faith? That faith without works is dead.

Therefore, another hallmark of the one true religion will be that God's purpose to redeem mankind would be known from the beginning. Along with this would be known something of the Person of the Redeemer and the way in which He would accomplish Redemption.

Funny you should mention this since Jesus didn’t fulfill the messianic prophecies.

As far as remote parts of the world and other countries that don't hear the Gospel...There are many missionaries out there trying to get the word out!

That is an excuse and doesn’t answer the question. What about the millions that haven’t heard the gospel?

Never the less lives are changed and miracles do happen.

You keep promoting miracles, but you have offered nothing to back up your assertions. You’re sounding more and more like the loony on the street corner.

People have authored many different books, God only had to write one book.

Then why are there so many different versions and re-edits of the bible?

ned flandas

The miracle of bringing a person back to life seems a bit more spectacular than a rocket to me.

One person back to life verses benefiting millions with what has been learned through the application of rocketry. The numbers are on the side of science here.

We can have a rocket, that explores more of what God created.

If god designed it for people why is it so hostile to human life?

We can study the DNA that God designed.

If DNA were designed, why is there so much garbage in it?


delphi_ote

I think my version is more credible.

Wow! Your repetition of those three testimonies has changed my life. I’m now ready to give up a substantial amount of my income and preach the most holy word of The King ( bwarw, bwarw ) to all.

Ossai

 

[delphi_ote]

Wow! Your repetition of those three testimonies has changed my life. I’m now ready to give up a substantial amount of my income and preach the most holy word of The King ( bwarw, bwarw ) to all.

Preach against the false prophets of The Holy Wood who spread the false doctrine that Greedo shot first, Tom Bombadil doesn't exist, and desert warriors use stupid sonic guns. To obtain salvation, make all checks payable to Ryan Cunningham and mail them the the Univesity of Central Florida Computer Science department today!

 

[Orangutango]

Now serving question #243...

Despite knowing that Kathy already has about a bazillion other questions to answer first, I thought I would throw out one more to the mix. If anyone else wishes to adress this, please feel free.

My question is in regards to us mere mortals having the audacity to question god's great and mysterious plan for humanity. After all... who are we know what god's will is supposed to be, right...? (cough, cough "the bible" cough

If mankind... who's ultimate fat god seems to be completely infatuated over to the point of obsession... is not supposed to be privy to god's machinations, then who is? Hmmmm.... wait a minute. What about the angels? Wouldn't those entities that had been god's 1st creation... those beings who not only were closest to him... who had the privilege to bask in his eternal glory... but whom also carried out his divine edicts have a much, greater understanding of their creator's grand scheme for not only humanity, but for all of reality?

Surely these angels would know first hand just what a benevolent, just and fair master god was, right? And out of the heavenly host... who could be viewed as the ultimate witness to god's grace and goodness? Lucifer, perhaps? Surely god's bestest and brightest angel... his 2nd in command... could never, ever even contemplate thinking ill of his master, let alone willingly questioning his authority.

And yet he did. He questioned. He rebelled. So did a whole host of his bretheren (I've included a link to a list of their names):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel

How could this be, Kathy? How could these pure and perfect servants of god... who had up until that point been steadfast and unwavering in their complete and utter devotion to their lord... turn their backs on him and take up arms to overthrow him? Whatever the reason, whether it had been because of pride, a crisis of consciousness or a flaw in their design, we know through the bible that the Fall did indeed happen.

And here's another, little conundrum to ponder over. Were these angels acting out of free will? The bible does indeed suggest that they possessed free will. If you subscribe to this belief, then you must accept the notion that something must have convinced them to both question and revolt against god's authority. It makes one wonder what it could have been to motivate them to turn their backs on a being as supremely benevolent as their creator.

If you do not happen to subscribe to the free will theory above, then the only other alternative you can believe is that those angels who sided with Lucifer were created/designed by god to be rebelious in nature; that they, too, were made solely to play their part in their creator's divine plan before being cast out of heaven and into the firey pits of hell. I wonder which of these two scenarios is the more disturbing to you... either way, it should make any sane and rational person stop and take pause as to just what kind of loving and benevolent god we're dealing with here.

So, here is my question. If even some of his (formerly) most loyal servants were able to find reason to rebel against him... hell, if even the one being in all of creation that was second only to him in beauty, grace and power such as Lucifer rebelled against him... what does that ultimately say about your god?

Now serving question #244.

<Looks at ticket #467>

Sigh...

 

[Roadtoad]

I'm waiting for Kathy to offer a considered answer to just ONE of the questions asked. Until then, she remains a troll.