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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

Citroen launch preview the concept for the EV version of the 2CV. It probably wouldn't do what I need now, but I am nostalgically drawn to it, as an owner of a couple of the ICE versions many years ago. The EV version probably doesn't come with a starting handle, though (something which I did have occasion to use a couple of times).

The iconic Citroën 2 CV is returning for the electric age as a 1000kg, sub-£13,000 city car with an anticipated range between 130 and 150 miles. It’s instantly recognisable as a new take on the iconic original, which was in production for more than five decades. The new car features a wider, more squat stance albeit with traditional details including round headlights. Or as Citroën puts it, the 2 CV is ‘reinterpreted through tauter lines and generous volumes to convey greater energy’.

The concept is actually slightly shorter than its namesake at 3.76 metres, and although it can’t quite compete with the 500-600kg weight figure of the old car, the concept’s target weight of around 1000kg is impressive for any modern vehicle, let alone an EV. It is expected to be produced on an all-new platform aimed at taking advantage of proposed E-car regulations by the EU that have been created to boost the sales of small electric cars.
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www.evo.co.uk

Citroën resurrects its most famous car | Evo

The French manufacturer’s much-anticipated revival of the 2 CV has been revealed at the Paris Motor Show
www.evo.co.uk www.evo.co.uk
 
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zooterkin said:
Citroen launch preview the concept for the EV version of the 2CV. It probably wouldn't do what I need now, but I am nostalgically drawn to it, as an owner of a couple of the ICE versions many years ago. The EV version probably doesn't come with a starting handle, though (something which I did have occasion to use a couple of times).



www.evo.co.uk

Citroën resurrects its most famous car | Evo

The French manufacturer’s much-anticipated revival of the 2 CV has been revealed at the Paris Motor Show
www.evo.co.uk www.evo.co.uk
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Ah, but can it be driven over a ploughed field without any of the eggs in the basket on the back seat getting broken?

Hmmm, sort of - it cheats...
The doors even have an integral egg box. Why? Because the original 1930s design brief for the 2CV called for a car that could carry a basket of eggs across a rutted field without any breakages.
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My (somewhat of a fluke) overnight tariff of 3.33p/kwh ends in about an hour and a half. Boo-hoo, the cost is about to double. How will I ever afford it?
 
Rolfe said:
Every car has to be parked somewhere when it's not being driven. It should not be beyond the wit of man to install lowish-power AC chargers in whatever proportion of these locations as is necessary to allow everyone who needs to charge their car to do so.

EV adoption is not going to be instantaneous, so there is time for a planned roll-out. Very few people are going to need to charge every day, especially in urban areas, so coverage doesn't need to be 100% or even close.

When we consider how electricity was rolled out and installed in every home 100 years ago, with multiple power points in every room, lighting, water heating and so on, the idea that this task is beyond the capabilities of the 21st century is ludicrous.
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It will take some time, to be sure. I live in a large condominium complex, and every outdoor parking stall has a 120 volt AC plug for a block heater for cold-morning starts. Upgrading those will mean re-wiring them for 220 or 240 volts and perhaps a larger amperage. The underground stalls don't have outlets at all, but it would be easy to add them in.

Another problem is the building may not have sufficient power to accommodate all the new plugs if a large number are in use at once.

The condo board is also looking into getting a handful of higher wattage charges, but they have delayed making a decision.
 
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Very happy with this. Much neater than having a cable plugged into a wall socket and sticking out under the garage door.IMG_1898.jpeg
 
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Blue Mountain said:
It will take some time, to be sure. I live in a large condominium complex, and every outdoor parking stall has a 120 volt AC plug for a block heater for cold-morning starts. Upgrading those will mean re-wiring them for 220 or 240 volts and perhaps a larger amperage. The underground stalls don't have outlets at all, but it would be easy to add them in.

Another problem is the building may not have sufficient power to accommodate all the new plugs if a large number are in use at once.

The condo board is also looking into getting a handful of higher wattage charges, but they have delayed making a decision.
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That's exactly what they did in Norway. I didn't read anything about problems with the electricity supply.
 
biggest problem is that it costs money. if you have an older home with an older panel and need to upgrade your service to accomdate an additional 60a device, which is likely on panels 100a or smaller, it can cost thousands of dollars and isn't a diy job. if your panel is large enough it's much cheaper and potentially a diy job. newer homes with 200a or larger services probably won't have an issue installing a charger in the garage.

an apartment complex or parking garage is really going to depend on how many chargers are being added and what the existing infrastructure is.
 
Home improvements are necessary to bring older properties up to modern standards and this costs money. Hold the front page.
 
i’m a little confused about your rude attitude because just a post prior you were saying you’d never heard this and now you’re acting like it was obvious and shaming me for explaining it
 
Blue Mountain said:
It will take some time, to be sure. I live in a large condominium complex, and every outdoor parking stall has a 120 volt AC plug for a block heater for cold-morning starts. Upgrading those will mean re-wiring them for 220 or 240 volts and perhaps a larger amperage. The underground stalls don't have outlets at all, but it would be easy to add them in.

Another problem is the building may not have sufficient power to accommodate all the new plugs if a large number are in use at once.

The condo board is also looking into getting a handful of higher wattage charges, but they have delayed making a decision.
Click to expand...
Unless you are driving long distances daily, even a US '120v' granny charger will cover most peoples normal daily driving requirements, coupled with maybe needing an occasional 'topup' sometimes from a fast charger (remember, you do NOT have to put a 100% charge in every time- you can stop at any point, and most BEVs on the market today will charge at a fast charger at a rate that even a 5-10 minute 'topup' charge will add 100-200km (60-120 miles) in that time....
 
dirtywick said:
biggest problem is that it costs money. if you have an older home with an older panel and need to upgrade your service to accomdate an additional 60a device, which is likely on panels 100a or smaller, it can cost thousands of dollars and isn't a diy job. if your panel is large enough it's much cheaper and potentially a diy job. newer homes with 200a or larger services probably won't have an issue installing a charger in the garage.

an apartment complex or parking garage is really going to depend on how many chargers are being added and what the existing infrastructure is.
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No- no it doesn't...
(thas a common trope trotted out by the 'antiEV' crowd- and is complete garbage...)

Most EVs can be readily charged to cover 99% of most drivers normal daily drive with only a 2.5-3kw 'slow charger' and even a 7kw one is well above whats needed for a 'home charger'... (many of the older Aussie homes are only 60A, only newer ones made after 2000 are basically 100A or more- and a 7kw EV charger is common even in the 60A street supply homes...)

These can be readily used on ANY house that has an electric stove without issue lol- so its not an issue for them to handle the smaller usage of a EV charger...

Sure its 'nice' to have a faster charger IF your house can handle it- but its NOT a requirement- almost all modern chargers have 'whole house monitoring' and once installed and set with the houses maximum allowable usage, monitors that through a 'current loop' installed on the main incoming power line- and IF the houses current consumption rises near its maximum, it 'throttles back' on the charge rate going into the car- even halting it entirely if reqired- it continues to monitor and once that current peak has passed, 'ramps up' the charge rate again...

This explains it clearly

This is OLD stuff- chargers that do this have been the norm for nearly a decade now in Australia lol (that Zappi has been on the market here in Australia since 2018, even earlier in the UK...- they make a 7kw single phase and a 22kw three phase model- the 7kw is the most commonly sold)

Even blocks of flats (apartment complex) have 'networked chargers' are readily available off the shelf products, where each charger is fed from the 'common circuits' and you don't need 'dedicated' chargers for each flat (many don't have 'assigned parking'- you plug into any available one, and 'tap your card/phone/RFID' and it charges your account with the power you use- regardless of which charger you happen to use, it also means people can't 'borrow power' from 'your charger' when you aren't there like dedicated chargers lol- because you don't have one...)- these also have 'whole building usage' monitoring and can slow charging to all chargers if needed...

This is all old stuff, thought about, and solutions found and implemented... YEARS ago- its all stuff you can literally buy 'off the shelf'...

Apartment EV Charging: A Complete Australian Guide - Volt Club

Living in an apartment does not mean you cannot own an electric vehicle. Thousands of Australian apartment residents already charge at home—but installing a charger in a shared building requires more planning than installing one in a private garage. The main challenges are usually not the...
voltclub.com.au voltclub.com.au
 
dirtywick said:
i’m a little confused about your rude attitude because just a post prior you were saying you’d never heard this and now you’re acting like it was obvious and shaming me for explaining it
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I was not intending to be rude or to shame you. I was expressing astonishment that the country which regards itself as the most advanced on the planet is making such a meal of this.
 
Dabop said:
No- no it doesn't...
(thas a common trope trotted out by the 'antiEV' crowd- and is complete garbage...)

Most EVs can be readily charged to cover 99% of most drivers normal daily drive with only a 2.5-3kw 'slow charger' and even a 7kw one is well above whats needed for a 'home charger'... (many of the older Aussie homes are only 60A, only newer ones made after 2000 are basically 100A or more- and a 7kw EV charger is common even in the 60A street supply homes...)

These can be readily used on ANY house that has an electric stove without issue lol- so its not an issue for them to handle the smaller usage of a EV charger...

Sure its 'nice' to have a faster charger IF your house can handle it- but its NOT a requirement- almost all modern chargers have 'whole house monitoring' and once installed and set with the houses maximum allowable usage, monitors that through a 'current loop' installed on the main incoming power line- and IF the houses current consumption rises near its maximum, it 'throttles back' on the charge rate going into the car- even halting it entirely if reqired- it continues to monitor and once that current peak has passed, 'ramps up' the charge rate again...

This explains it clearly

This is OLD stuff- chargers that do this have been the norm for nearly a decade now in Australia lol (that Zappi has been on the market here in Australia since 2018, even earlier in the UK...- they make a 7kw single phase and a 22kw three phase model- the 7kw is the most commonly sold)

Even blocks of flats (apartment complex) have 'networked chargers' are readily available off the shelf products, where each charger is fed from the 'common circuits' and you don't need 'dedicated' chargers for each flat (many don't have 'assigned parking'- you plug into any available one, and 'tap your card/phone/RFID' and it charges your account with the power you use- regardless of which charger you happen to use, it also means people can't 'borrow power' from 'your charger' when you aren't there like dedicated chargers lol- because you don't have one...)- these also have 'whole building usage' monitoring and can slow charging to all chargers if needed...

This is all old stuff, thought about, and solutions found and implemented... YEARS ago- its all stuff you can literally buy 'off the shelf'...

Apartment EV Charging: A Complete Australian Guide - Volt Club

Living in an apartment does not mean you cannot own an electric vehicle. Thousands of Australian apartment residents already charge at home—but installing a charger in a shared building requires more planning than installing one in a private garage. The main challenges are usually not the...
voltclub.com.au voltclub.com.au
Click to expand...

I have a 7 kw Zappi and I had no idea it could do that! As far as I know it has never actually had to do it.

But before I got the Zappi I was charging the car using a 13A socket that was in the garage when the house was built. I didn't need to install anything in order to run my car. The car was only drawing as much as a fan heater and less than my oven or my electric kettle.

The reason for the Zappi was primarily to be able to take advantage of the insanely cheap overnight electricity tariffs available. For that, one needs to be able to get more than about 10 kwh into the car in the six-hour slot available every night. The Zappi gets about 35 kwh into the car in the same time.
 
Rolfe said:
I have a 7 kw Zappi and I had no idea it could do that! As far as I know it has never actually had to do it.

But before I got the Zappi I was charging the car using a 13A socket that was in the garage when the house was built. I didn't need to install anything in order to run my car. The car was only drawing as much as a fan heater and less than my oven or my electric kettle.

The reason for the Zappi was primarily to be able to take advantage of the insanely cheap overnight electricity tariffs available. For that, one needs to be able to get more than about 10 kwh into the car in the six-hour slot available every night. The Zappi gets about 35 kwh into the car in the same time.
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An easy way to check if it has been installed correctly is look in your 'outside meter/feedin box' (not the consumer unit with all the breakers)
There should be a 'current loop' fitted to one of the main feed cables- in the Zappi it can be 'hardwired' or in many cases has a 'Harvi' wifi transmitter in there...
(that's a sloppy install, the Harvi shouldn't be just lying there like that grr) its current loop is the black thing on the cable with the red tape marker on it, there's also a second one in that one for something else (the one with the B/W cables- that's a 'hardwired' unit for the second)
1791895489644.png
A better install lol
1791895681947.jpeg

The Zappi 'can' run without it- but is unable to do 'whole house monitoring' in that case- and could 'in theory' if its charging at full power and there's other large loads running at the same time, cause a 'street fuse overload' which will blow the 'street/DNO fuse' (inside the big white box to the bottom left in both cases- this is NOT a 'user replaceable' item, and will require a 'proper' electrician with the appropriate credentials to replace (not your normal 'household sparky' lol)
 
Rolfe said:
I was not intending to be rude or to shame you. I was expressing astonishment that the country which regards itself as the most advanced on the planet is making such a meal of this.
Click to expand...

ok sorry i misunderstood

an upgrade to your home panel in the us costs about $5k and since it involves the utility a master electrician must pull a permit, so it’s not a diy job. i would consider that a significant expense

of course as dabop pointed out slow charging options exist without necessarily needing to upgrade your home electrical, whether or not those are options for you depends on your circumstance.
 
My installation came in the context of the complete replacement of my kitchen, which after 25 years was proving almost impossible to keep clean. We’ve switched from gas burners to induction. We have also been having problems with the underfloor heating in the extension so while having an electrician onsite to deal with those issues and in fact replace the entire board in the garage, I thought I’d take advantage and have him plumb in a proper charger for me. It turned out that he is also a Tesla driver and so he’s put in the exact same charger that he has at his home.

Going from a 13A socket to a 32A charger isn’t going to change the world in terms of speed of charging but it will make our lives a lot simpler.
 
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