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Roger Waters promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories...

Brainster said:
David Gilmour's wife, who presumably knows Roger Waters better than you do, called him anti-Semitic to his rotten core. Gilmour responded with "Every word demonstrably true."
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I am sure David Gilmour's wife is being 100% neutral in this, and is not just throwing out a personal barb in support of hubby. Fact is, apx 25% of Israeli Jews think the war in Gaza 'has gone far enough' and only 34% say 'not far enough', bearing in mind people's loyalties and fear of retribution (cf. those two Israeli film makers) the rest expressing satisfaction or neutrality.

On my plane returning from the Holy Land (as the travel agents euphemistically call it) 2014 (during which time I was there, three American Jewish rabbis were stabbed to death in Jerusalem by terrorists), a row of guys in rabbi gear near me were reading intellectual books critiquing and criticising Zionism (I know, because I checked out the titles on Amazon). So, you see, the issue is a lot more complex than 'anti-Semiticism'.

Having said that, I have no idea whether Waters is anti-Semitic, just pointing out that it doesn't follow that he is, for being 'pro-Palestine'.
 
Axxman300 said:
Point being, moron, is this had nothing to do with the attacks of 9-11. The disaster was witnessed by a half-million people. There were many different reactions, and the FBI and NYPD investigated hundreds of reports of strange activity in the months afterword. The fact that the Dancing Israelis has stood out over suspicious activities of other - non-Jewish - people suggests a certain bias among a specific set of people.


9-11 has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian problem. And this is the point you're happy to ignore.

What this conference, and Roger Waters is claiming that Israel was behind the attacks, and staged the collapse of the WTC by wiring the buildings with explosives. All to drag the US into a war with...[checks notes} Afghanistan, and later Iraq...but not Palestine. You'd think Mossad might have made the hijackers Palestinians. Even a few with a track record of terrorist acts. But no, we got Saudis, and Egyptians, and anything but Palestinians in those 19 hijackers.

So the premise of this conference is nakedly stupid, and based on antisemitism. They are accusing a Jewish state of attacking the US with zero evidence. Why would they do that? The US government knows a few higher-ups in the Saudi regime helped Al Qaeda, but we've been cautious about how we've dealt with the issue because we lack solid evidence. That is the difference here. Yes, we suspect a more involved Saudi involvement at some level, but we can't prove it. But these guys have it all figured out because Israel is evil or something.

We know why Al Qaeda attacked the US (repeatedly). Bin Laden PUT IT IN WRITING. Israel had nothing to do with it. Claiming otherwise is antisemitic. Got it?
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While Israel certainly was not responsible for 9/11, it is a fact that jihadists like bin Laden, KSM, Ramzi Yousef, and the 9/11 hijackers were angry at US support for Israel and routinely blamed America for the plight of the Palestinians (and blamed “the Jews” broadly, of course).

Moreover, Bin Laden talked about his anger over US support for the Israeli war in Lebanon in the 80s. He specifically mentioned seeing TV coverage of some bombed out “towers” in Beirut and how it gave him the idea to one day “hit towers in America” as retribution. Now he said this after 9/11 and so caveat of it being a convenient propaganda narrative, but I have no reason to believe that that war didn’t have an effect on him. Bin Laden had spent time in Beirut in his youth.

And remember that bin Laden’s father had the construction contracts not just for renovating the holy sites in Mecca and Medina, but also in the al-Asqa mosque in Jerusalem prior to Israel capturing it in the Six Day War in June 1967. So the perceived control of Islam’s holy sites by occupying armies of infidels was a theme for him that was personal (familial) as well as ideological. That is what links his anger at US troops in Saudi Arabia to Israel’s control of the Palestinian territories.

Bin Laden may have been a crank, but he was a sincere one.
 
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Smock said:
B-b-b-but I bet she never plastered handbills for their management, hmmmm? And if so, she can teach @Vixen nothing about Pink Floyd. Nothing!!
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Just as one needs to step back and look at discrete incidents - such as the WTC attack of 9/11 - and try to see what might have led up to it, we can do the same with Waters. Waters and his three bandmates, together with their two managers, Peter Jenner and Andrew King, formed Blackhill Enterprises in October, 1966. In the same month, underground newspaper INTERNATIONAL TIMES was launched at the Roundhouse, with Pink Floyd and Soft Machine doing an all-night line up. One of the founders of I.T. was John 'Hoppy' Hopkins. Pink Floyd's first single in 1967, 'Arnold Layne', was produced by Joe Boyd, on Columbia Records (an E.M.I. label). It reached no. 20 in the charts.

Also, in 1966, Hoppy Hopkins and Joe Boyd founded the UFO nightclub in Tottenham Ct. Road, with Pink Floyd as their resident band. Peter Jenner was largely responsible for getting the band gigs. Their signature was their light shows, to replicate the psychedelia of the West Coast, USA. Joe Boyd was from Boston, a music producer, whose influences at Harvard were the blues. Pink Floyd themselves were originally an R'nB band. British rock was heavily influenced by US blues. (For example, Alexis Korner.) The nightclub UFO being founded coincided with the hippie Love and Peace movement on the US West Coast. This cultural phenomenon has been ascribed to America's youth protesting against the US war in Vietnam, not wanting to get drafted and not wanting to fight 'gooks' - as the Vietcong were nicknamed - who were half the size of the US troops, was the sentiment reported. At the same time, the zeitgeist coincided with Albert Hoffman having synthesied lysergic acid by accident in the late 1950's and the CIA's MK-ULTRA experiments with the mind-expanding drug (which then, was not illegal) saw the entrance of Harvard professor Timothy Leary on the scene, advocating 'turn on, tune in, drop
out', so this was the psychedelic influence that crossed over the Atlantic to the UK, with Boyd talent-spotting new acts in England. Chris Blackwell set up the Island Record label and hired Boyd as one of his producers. The label was originally geared towards ska, reggae and blue beat. However, if you check out the line-ups in the Island label sampler LP's of the time (these were cheapo-cheapo LP's designed to introduce new acts to the young public) you'll see the label was soon dominated by progressive and psychedelic bands, such as Traffic, King Crimson, Spooky Tooth, The Incredible String Band, etcetera, etcetera. Likewise, Pink Floyd's leit motif was their light show with revolving panoramic 'azimuth' ball, with Pink Floyd doing hour long versions of 'Interstellar Overdrive' and all-nighters. Their next single, 'See Emily Play' in 1967- another Syd Barrett number - reached no. 10 in the charts, Columbia label. Key, was Barrett's special effects and experimentation with creative sounds. Pink Floyd's psychedelic image.

The UFO night club lasted less than a year before it closed down. However, the UFO posters were still selling well years later, thanks to the fluorescent psychedelic artwork by duo Hapsash and the Coloured Coat. These were produced and sold from the basement of their bookshop in Mayfair, the Indica. So, early Pink Floyd, including Waters and Barrett, sold a dream. Bring West Coast psychedelia to cold rainy UK.

Jenner and King knew how to promote the small stable of bands in Blackhill Enterpises, psychedelic posters and light shows being at the forefront. Hoppy Hopkins together with Nicholas Albery set up initiatives to bring the hippie counterculture scene to London. Albery had just spent time in Haight Astbury. Boyd opened a cinema in Portobello Road called the Electric Cinema, where all-night Warhol or horror might be showing to trendy audiences. As well as INTERNATIONAL TIMES, there was also OZ , which included psychedelic artwork, together with cartoon strips by Robert Crumb. Both these folded towards the end of 1973. Keith Morris, rock photographer - famous for his photography of Marc Bolan and Jimi Hendrix - contributed to OZ. Nicholas Saunders brought out the phenomenally successful
Alternative London, a huge best seller, which he self-published. There was also the well-received Overland to India packages. So Blackhill Enterprises knew the value of posters, print and artwork, together with fab light shows. Whilst the Roy Harper Royal Albert Hall poster for his Dec 1973 concert wasn't the highest of hippie artwork, they were enormous. The graphics were in the style of the Royal Albert Hall building with lots of oranges, yellows and blacks. We picked up these posters from some underground printers in Notting Hill, I wasn't allowed to know the exact address and waited down the road. I was only ever a 'look out' in case the police came along, as fly-posting was illegal.

So, the concert was sold out. Blackhill Enterprises was delighted. They were super-impressed to see the posters everywhere they looked across that part of London. They paid us a bonus, and upgraded our free tickets for the concert from £0.75p to £1.25 in the circle. I arrived at the prearranged meeting place on the day, to discover there was a whole group of us going. All of the buses going to the R.A.H. were filled to the brim with a party atmosphere, and we even gave away some tickets outside to a few grateful people who didn't have one. That was the mindset that was the counterculture. Roger Waters then would likely have been pretty much the same as the rest of his generation, anti-war, with a 'peace and love' ethos and a mistrust of the then establishment, which was Bush and Thatcher and war-mongering. He had been in the Youth CND - Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.


Roger Waters might have changed with age, as it's known that people become more conservative over time and he might now be a racist ◊◊◊◊, well I guess he's become right wing, getting into bed with Tucker Carlson and supporting Putin.
 
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Sorry, I don't know what happened to the text in my post. The system crashed in the middle of it, so that's where the fault lies as I had to do a 'save' job.
 
@Vixen, what does that post even mean, except for the fact you've mastered the fine art of "Let AI write it, then cut and paste"? How exactly does that support you claiming expertise simply because you wielded playbills and a staple gun for 6 pence an hour? Hell, I once worked in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, that doesn't mean I'm an expert in Keith Black Hemi engines.
 
Smock said:
@Vixen, what does that post even mean, except for the fact you've mastered the fine art of "Let AI write it, then cut and paste"? How exactly does that support you claiming expertise simply because you wielded playbills and a staple gun for 6 pence an hour? Hell, I once worked in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, that doesn't mean I'm an expert in Keith Black Hemi engines.
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It is not AI or 'cut and paste' it is my own words as written by me.
 
Smock said:
Next you will be trying to sell me a bridge to Brooklyn. Sorry, not buying it.
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PS: re your, "Hell, I once worked in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, that doesn't mean I'm an expert in Keith Black Hemi engines."

Working in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, is hardly living a lifestyle..?

ETA:

1790180295999.png
 
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Vixen said:
PS: re your, "Hell, I once worked in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, that doesn't mean I'm an expert in Keith Black Hemi engines."

Working in the IT department for a World Champion NHRA Top Fuel driver, is hardly living a lifestyle..?

ETA:
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And posting flyers on telephone poles is? :ROFLMAO: Explain, please . . .

ETA: And I can guarantee I was far closer to the day to day workings of an NHRA racing team than you were to the day to day workings of Pink frigging Floyd. Starting with the fact that I actually knew the Top Fuel driver and his crew, and saw them on an almost daily basis.
 
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Smock said:
And posting flyers on telephone poles is? :ROFLMAO: Explain, please . . .

ETA: And I can guarantee I was far closer to the day to day workings of an NHRA racing team than you were to the day to day workings of Pink frigging Floyd. Starting with the fact that I actually knew the Top Fuel driver and his crew, and saw them on an almost daily basis.
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Cool! I like it but it's 'straight', right..?

Try wikipedia instead:

en.wikipedia.org

UK underground - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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