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The Flag

Manopolus said:
I'm a US military vet (Desert Storm era through the end of the Cold War) who would be perfectly happy cutting up the flag and wiping my butt with it if I for some reason didn't have access to toilet paper. I would not be making a statement with this behavior. The entire point would be hygiene. It's just a piece of cloth.

Does anyone have a problem with that?
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I think it is very patriotic for an USAian to wipe their arse with anything made in China
 
Manopolus said:
I'm a US military vet (Desert Storm era through the end of the Cold War) who would be perfectly happy cutting up the flag and wiping my butt with it if I for some reason didn't have access to toilet paper. I would not be making a statement with this behavior. The entire point would be hygiene. It's just a piece of cloth.

Does anyone have a problem with that?
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No. Why would I?
 
TragicMonkey said:
Nah, the American flag is unique in that it undergoes transubstantiation and literally becomes the flesh of George Washington himself. To desecrate it is to annoy the founding demigod himself! However, he's absolutely fine with American flag apparel because that means he gets to be sexy close to his citizens. That American flag bikini? He's into that, completely. He used to wear one himself! This has been Patriotism Explained with TragicMonkey. Tune in tomorrow for why reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is actually an invocation to powers eldritch, white, and blue!
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Does this transustantiation happen at the Chinese factory where the flag is made or on the boat ride over?
 
LiteBright said:
Does this transustantiation happen at the Chinese factory where the flag is made or on the boat ride over?
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Well, the orthodox explanation is that it occurs only after a special ritual performed by anointed Americans in good standing. However, recent scientific data suggests that Americans emit a form of radiation in which particles called americons and ameritrinos are emitted. A flag exposed to sufficient amounts of this radiation becomes infused with Americanity.
 
There was a Marvel comic back in the 90s during one of the periods when flag protection legislation was making its way through Congress, in which Spider-Man jokingly asked Captain America if his costume would violate the proposed law. Cap's response was along the lines of "as long as you respect the ideals that the flag represents, the flag itself is just a piece of cloth". I've always found WWCAD to be an effective guiding principle, as long as it isn't Ultimate Cap, or Hydra Cap, etc.
 
Armitage72 said:
Cap's response was along the lines of "as long as you respect the ideals that the flag represents, the flag itself is just a piece of cloth".
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That one doesn't really land, sorry Cap. It would be a piece of cloth even harder if you didn't respect the ideals that the flag represents. Either it's a piece of cloth or it isn't, you don't get it to mean it both ways. Which was the purpose of the law, really. Enforcement would be so subjective that it was, is and could only be used for performative patriotism.

I propose to tie flag protection laws into immigration reform. Throw the borders open, and if we ever have too many people start rounding up the next jackass we see with American flag Punisher decals, or those Thin Blue Line desecrations. Deport them to Copistan or whatever the hell country they think that's a flag of, because it shouldn't be this one.
 
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Beelzebuddy said:
That one doesn't really land, sorry Cap. It would be a piece of cloth even harder if you didn't respect the ideals that the flag represents. Either it's a piece of cloth or it isn't, you don't get it to mean it both ways. Which was the purpose of the law, really. Enforcement would be so subjective that it was, is and could only be used for performative patriotism.
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I think I left out part of the line. There was also "... it's just a piece of cloth, and it doesn't matter what you do to it." He was saying that it's the ideas behind the flag that matter, not the physical object.

Edit: It's also been 30-or-so years since I read the comic, so I may be misquoting a bit.
 
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Armitage72 said:
There was a Marvel comic back in the 90s during one of the periods when flag protection legislation was making its way through Congress, in which Spider-Man jokingly asked Captain America if his costume would violate the proposed law. Cap's response was along the lines of "as long as you respect the ideals that the flag represents, the flag itself is just a piece of cloth". I've always found WWCAD to be an effective guiding principle, as long as it isn't Ultimate Cap, or Hydra Cap, etc.
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I'd modify Cap's take a bit. It's just a peice of cloth unless it is being formally displayed, and only then does it take on its symbolic reverence and pomp and circumstance and all.

The American Legion was asked a few years back how they felt about star and stripe bedazzled bikinis and all that, and they said it was fine, just people showing their love of their country. Just when the flag is displayed as a flag, if you revere the principles it stands for, show it some props.

I think it's like if you needed some toilet paper, and the only thing around was pictures of your mother (copies, that were replacable). It's not that you worship pics, but it just feels icky to use them that way.
 
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Armitage72 said:
I think I left out part of the line. There was also "... it's just a piece of cloth, and it doesn't matter what you do to it." He was saying that it's the ideas behind the flag that matter, not the physical object.

Edit: It's also been 30-or-so years since I read the comic, so I may be misquoting a bit.
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Well the ideal behind the flag is to exploit the hell out of the subjects of the EIC.

But the comic writers were actually talking about the ideals they thought it should stand for.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That one doesn't really land, sorry Cap. It would be a piece of cloth even harder if you didn't respect the ideals that the flag represents. Either it's a piece of cloth or it isn't, you don't get it to mean it both ways. Which was the purpose of the law, really. Enforcement would be so subjective that it was, is and could only be used for performative patriotism.
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You, and others, are confusing the symbol representing something with the thing itself. The symbol is replaceable - many things can represent something else. It's the thing itself that Mr Captain values.
 
I used to have a roll of TP with Trump's face on it. I deliberately ate a hot dog from a gas station so I could have the pleasure of using it to wipe my arse several times a day. Then I went back and bought another hot dog.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Well, the orthodox explanation is that it occurs only after a special ritual performed by anointed Americans in good standing. However, recent scientific data suggests that Americans emit a form of radiation in which particles called americons and ameritrinos are emitted. A flag exposed to sufficient amounts of this radiation becomes infused with Americanity.
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(Old) Glory Be, bretheren, sisteren, cousinen an' all.

By the by: that banner, glorious or not ain't old. That's a baby flag.

I shall refrain from commenting on the current US president's history of inappropriately carressing, fondling or otherwise touching this ever-so-young flag. Were I to do so, readers may be reminded of the unrelated reportage about his behaviour backstage at teen beauty pageants, or his "locker-room" talk about quite where he chooses to grab a woman, and that would be unfair. You can't just bandy about insinuations based on showbiz gossip and vile claims made on audio recordings.

And there is no need to. A court has found him liable for sexual abuse, and his every appeal against that finding has been rejected.

Glory Be (oddly stiff).
 
arthwollipot said:
You, and others, are confusing the symbol representing something with the thing itself. The symbol is replaceable - many things can represent something else. It's the thing itself that Mr Captain values.
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Yeah, I know how symbolism works. The IRL proposed legislation that the comic was responding to does not work that way. But it was never really intended to - this was in the 90s when things were going so well that the only thing to be outraged over was some angry college kid burning a flag.
 
arthwollipot said:
You, and others, are confusing the symbol representing something with the thing itself. The symbol is replaceable - many things can represent something else. It's the thing itself that Mr Captain values.
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Many years ago during a national debate about flag burning, I heard Barbara Jordan, at one time a Representative from Texas and a scholar of the Constitution, use almost those exact words. I do not have a link, but it might have been on the MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour on PBS.
 
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