Internal structure of electrons, quarks and gluons

[W.D.Clinger]

You don't have a theory. You would need to supply the mathematics in order to have a theory.

You seem unable to discuss the problems with your proposal. There doesn't seem to be any reason to suppose you know what you're talking about.

More to the point, there are a whole lot of reasons to think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[JayUtah]

...hence my theory assumes a completely different concept of preons.

Again, it's not a theory until you show the math. I feel we need to repeat this as often as possible because it speaks to the difference between physics and crackpottery.

I just noticed something I'd overlooked since the thread began. In your title you seem to lump electrons, quarks, and gluons together and tell us they stand in need to composition from quadrillions of your own private preons. Electrons and quarks make sense together because they're both elementary particles. They both have rest mass. The gluon is a gauge boson. It doesn't have rest mass. It can't have rest mass.

Preon theory was an attempt to understand why up quarks have so much less rest mass than down quarks. The up-down distinction in quarks is what gives a hadron its charge, if it has any. Leptons get their charge a different way. Now the math eventually showed why chopping up leptons and quarks into smaller preons solves the mass problem while incurring a whole bunch of other problems. It was therefore rejected. You don't tell us how your version solves this problem without incurring the same roadblocks as preon theory, or entirely new roadblocks.

But gluons don't have rest mass. At least preon theory was trying to solve a problem. You don't say what problem in the Standard Model you propose to solve by telling us that a virtual particle like a gluon needs to be subdivided, or even what that could possibly mean.

Quarks also have one of three colors (red, green, and blue)—not literal colors, it's just a metaphor. Antiquarks have anticolors. The rule for baryons (the stable side of the hadron family) is that the three quarks that make one up need to be all different colors. They change colors by shooting gluons at each other. They do this constantly, and the resulting effect is the Strong Force. The buzzword is "quantum chromodynamics."

But gluons don't actually exist, in a very important way. I know that's a strange thing to say in the context of quantum physics. And all my physicist employees will scream in agony if they read this, because gluon field strength has a field equation and they'll say that if it has a field equation then it exists as much as anything in quantum mechanics exists.

But the gluon is a virtual particle, which means it cannot exist in a free state. Neutrons and neutrinos can exist as free particles. So can protons and electrons. They can travel through space. They can be detected. It really doesn't make sense to talk about the velocity of a gluon because they don't exist as free particles, even as short-lived ones. They can't be detected in a particle accelerator. It's essentially meaningless to talk about them being "composed" of anything. It's like saying what ingredients at the supermarket are used to make happiness.

In short, you don't say what problems with anything in the Standard Model are solved by your idea. It seems like you've gone no further than, "Wouldn't it be neat if there were a really minuscule microgrid?"

More to the point, there are a whole lot of reasons to think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Indeed, I doubt @wise47 could pass an entry-level physics exam.

 

[Mojo]

I could refer to the term preons, although this should be treated as a convention. In the classical theory of preons there are only a few of them, hence my theory assumes a completely different concept of preons.

Small at one end, much, much bigger in the middle, and then small again at the other end?

 

[JayUtah]

Small at one end, much, much bigger in the middle, and then small again at the other end?

Ah yes, the brontosauron.

 

[steenkh]

I think that elementary particles consist of a huge number of tiny gnomes holding hands. I don't have the skills to express it mathematically, but I think I am well on my way to collect the Nobel Prize.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I think that elementary particles consist of a huge number of tiny gnomes holding hands. I don't have the skills to express it mathematically, but I think I am well on my way to collect the Nobel Prize.

Tiny gnomes with bells on the top of their pointy little hats. I claim a share in your Gnomebell Prize.

Dave

 

[steenkh]

Tiny gnomes with bells on the top of their pointy little hats. I claim a share in your Gnomebell Prize.

Dave

I'll be willing to share the prize with you if you help flesh out the idea mathematically!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'll be willing to share the prize with you if you help flesh out the idea mathematically!

Splitting the prize between too many people would be bad eco-gnomics

 

[Carrot Flower King]

I think that elementary particles consist of a huge number of tiny gnomes holding hands. I don't have the skills to express it mathematically, but I think I am well on my way to collect the Nobel Prize.

Yeahbut, what are the gnomes made from?

Riddle me that, Batman!

 

[JayUtah]

Yeahbut, what are the gnomes made from?

Trolls, obviously.

 

[steenkh]

Yes, I wanted to say that the number of trolls determine how heavy the particles are!

 

[Helen]

The internal structure of electrons consists of manutrons.
The internal structure of quarks consists of quirks.
The internal structure of gluons consists of gluoffs.
That is my theory.

 

[Mojo]

The internal structure of electrons consists of manutrons.
The internal structure of quarks consists of quirks.
The internal structure of gluons consists of gluoffs.
That is my theory.

And ICE is trying to round up all the neutrinos and deport them.

 

[JayUtah]

The internal structure of electrons consists of manutrons.

The gastrons were never popular.

The internal structure of quarks consists of quirks.

Everyone knows you went to Quark's for the holosuites.

The internal structure of gluons consists of gluoffs.

That would more properly be the antiparticle.

And ICE is trying to round up all the neutrinos and deport them.

Neutrinos are notoriously difficult to catch even if you know what you're doing.

The Large Haddock Collider:

 

[catsmate]

Bring back Snarks and Boojums.....

 

[Helen]

Bring back Snarks and Boojums.....

They were gone?

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

...snip...

But the gluon is a virtual particle, which means it cannot exist in a free state. Neutrons and neutrinos can exist as free particles. So can protons and electrons. They can travel through space. They can be detected. It really doesn't make sense to talk about the velocity of a gluon because they don't exist as free particles, even as short-lived ones. They can't be detected in a particle accelerator. It's essentially meaningless to talk about them being "composed" of anything.
It's like saying what ingredients at the supermarket are used to make happiness.

And here we encounter the limits of Jay's knowledge of physics. The answer is obvious to us metaphysicists: dates, peanut butter, chocolate chips, and that gooey marshmallow stuff that I'm too smart to remember its name. In the quantum version: Limoncello cake and Chunky Monkey ice cream.

 

[catsmate]

They were gone?

I think later Trek de-canonicised them.

 

[sackett]

In the zendo:

The Master said, "The wise man looks into the cosmos and sees nothing as too large."

A student asked, "How about the microcosm?"

The Master replied, "Well, then he sees nothing as too small."

Another student piped up, "How about the Middlecosmos? I mean, you're always
telling us to seek the Middle Way --"

"All right, the wise man sees nothing that is too middling!" snapped the Master. "Look, who's
giving the lesson here, me or you lot?"

A third student bowed deeply and said, "The Master is our straight man, we are in his debt --" but, being
in a cross-legged sitting posture, the student broke wind before he could recover from his bow. (This is
a frequent occurrence on a soy-rich Zen diet.)

The Master deployed his fan to cover a smirk. The students, not being allowed fans, giggled and grinned
openly. The farter, sitting straight again and not much embarrassed, asked, "Who farted? The beans or the
belly?"

"Neither!" cried another student. "Not beans, not belly, YOU farted!"

"No!" shouted the student who began all this."Not beans, not belly, not him! IT farted!"

As the zendo's paper walls flapped with coarse merriment, the Master picked up a newspaper and turned to the Help Wanted page.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I think later Trek de-canonicised them.

That sounds painful, does it remove their intercessionary rights?