Merged Mercator projection to be phased out?

[arthwollipot]

It's not redundant.
Anyone that goes offshore without a paper chart and the ability to navigate using it and the appropriate instruments is a fool.
Using a chart and Sextant is still part of offshore qualification for navigation.
Even doing coastal work safely should involve a chart as a secondary check and backup.

That's not the same thing as navigating oceans. Nobody today is navigating across the Atlantic using paper charts and a sextant.

 

[arthwollipot]

Did you read my last post?
GPS uses flat maps. Those maps necessarily have to be projections of a round Earth onto a flat surface. Guess which projection digital maps often uses? Mercator, or the more 'advanced' Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM).

Also, as others have pointed out, although we live in 2026, paper maps are still very much a thing. I never go on long-distance hikes without either official hiking maps or map printouts.

But you're not navigating across oceans.

I didn't say that paper maps weren't still useful. I said that the Mercator projection is no longer required for the purpose for which it was designed. I wish people would pay attention to what I'm actually saying.

When you call it Eurocentric you make it sound like it was created that way for political or racist reasons. It's a navigation map, created the way it was because it allowed you to take out a bearing and draw it as a straight line on the map. It was never meant to be used as a world map in the first place. The people who refer to projections like Equal Earth as a corrected or more accurate world map don't know that different projections have different 'tasks' to solve in the first place.

And the 'task' for which the Mercator projection exists does not exist any more. There are better tools for that task.

 

[arthwollipot]

Location of prime meridian has little to do with Mercator. Mercator would keep all its features with any prime meridian.

But the location of the prime meridian is Eurocentric by design, because it was put there for Europeans for European purposes - those being the colonisation and exploitation of foreign lands.

 

[arthwollipot]

I think the Togolese delegation is making an infantile request. I'm glad I'm getting my point across.

Your point is puerile. You clearly think that those making the argument - the Togolese in particular - are babies who just don't understand how the world (according to Europe and its cultural dependencies, you know, the grown-ups in the room) actually works. Ohh, poor widdle babies who can't understand. Let's put them in their cots with their blankies and talk down to them.

How disgustingly condescending.

 

[arthwollipot]

In the end Britain won because of the size of the empire which brought the biggest quantity of trade, largest merchant fleet and the quantity and quality of charts being published.

Yes. It was done to support the expansion, colonisation, and exploitation efforts of the British Empire.

 

[Andy_Ross]

That's not the same thing as navigating oceans. Nobody today is navigating across the Atlantic using paper charts and a sextant.

I bet every navigating officer on a transatlantic run has paper charts and keeps the position up to date.
If your digital charting goes down you are using paper plots even if you still have a separate working GPS to give a position.

I bet they have a sextant aboard well.

 

[theprestige]

Longitude is racist, everyone.

Hell, seafaring is racist. Vikings, Spaniards, Englishmen... It's no accident all the notable seafarers were evil white dudes. By contrast, the sub-Saharan Africans were noted for [checks notes] slavery.

 

[arthwollipot]

Both things can be true. History sucked.

 

[arthwollipot]

I bet every navigating officer on a transatlantic run has paper charts and keeps the position up to date.
If your digital charting goes down you are using paper plots even if you still have a separate working GPS to give a position.

I bet they have a sextant aboard well.

As a backup, sure. If a nuclear apocalypse occurs and all of the satellites are knocked out by EMPs while you're in the middle of the ocean, you bet you need a method of finding your way, and in that case, as long as you want to know where Europe is, your Mercator projection might be useful.

 

[Dr.Sid]

But the location of the prime meridian is Eurocentric by design, because it was put there for Europeans for European purposes - those being the colonisation and exploitation of foreign lands.

imho lol. UK picked meridian in London. Duh. French wanted one in .. Paris ! That had to make their colonization at least 10 times more brutal. Please.
But there is interesting aspect of prime meridian. It splits the world into the East and the West .. and it's opposite meridian is the date line. And it mostly runs between continents. And it seems to be just lucky coincidence ! It wouldn't be much different if the French won though ..

 

[arthwollipot]

imho lol. UK picked meridian in London. Duh. French wanted one in .. Paris ! That had to make their colonization at least 10 times more brutal. Please.

What?

Nobody wanted to put the Prime Meridian in Shanghai. It was a European decision for European purposes, which at the time were colonisation and exploitation. The British were better at that than anybody else, though the French and Spanish certainly gave them a run for their money. Nobody was being colonised by the Zulus.

 

[steenkh]

"We have a map that is scientifically, mathematically, and topographically correct. But it makes us feel like our peepees are smol. Please help."

Oh no! They want to exchange our map with a map that is scientifically, mathematically, and topographically correct. But it makes us feel like our peepees are smol. Please help!

 

[Darat]

I like the new one, the continents and islands look more like they do on real images of the earth.

 

[theprestige]

Oh no! They want to exchange our map with a map that is scientifically, mathematically, and topographically correct. But it makes us feel like our peepees are smol. Please help!

Come on. You and I both know that wanting a map that makes your country look bigger is Trump behavior.

 

[Andy_Ross]

How about wanting a map that makes countries look the size they actually are in relation to each other?

 

[theprestige]

How about wanting a map that makes countries look the size they actually are in relation to each other?

Like the UN's polar projection logo? /s

How about not caring so much that you make a world court case out of it?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

The Greenwich line was AFAIK put in Greenwich for political/power play reasons, but I don't see what that has to do with the Mercator projection. edit: ninja'd.

Had to look up the dates. The Royal Observatory in Greenwich dates back to 1675. In 1851 the British Astronomer Royal (George Biddell Airy) decided the Prime Meridian (so far as England was concerned) should run through that observatory. That gave England a leg up at the 1883/1884 conference: Only three other observatories, in Paris, Berlin, and Washington DC, could satisfy the agreed-upon criteria.

The location of the Prime Meridian was a contest between Britain and France.

In the end Britain won because of the size of the empire which brought the biggest quantity of trade, largest merchant fleet and the quantity and quality of charts being published.

And because, according to Wikipedia, throwing this bone to England might encourage the blighters to adopt the metric system. (The original document is written in French, which I can't read, so I'm just trusting Wikipedia on this.)

Longitude is racist, everyone.

Hell, seafaring is racist. Vikings, Spaniards, Englishmen... It's no accident all the notable seafarers were evil white dudes. By contrast, the sub-Saharan Africans were noted for [checks notes] slavery.

Polynesians were evil white dudes?

 

[Planigale]

What?

Nobody wanted to put the Prime Meridian in Shanghai. It was a European decision for European purposes, which at the time were colonisation and exploitation. The British were better at that than anybody else, though the French and Spanish certainly gave them a run for their money. Nobody was being colonised by the Zulus.

The Zulu were expansionist and subjugated neighbouring peoples. Whether you call that 'colonisation' may depend on exact definition you choose

Zulu Expansion refers to a significant period of territorial growth and military development among the Zulu people in the early nineteenth century, centered in what is now Zululand, South Africa. Initially a small clan-based society, the Zulu transformed under the leadership of Shaka, who became chief around 1817. Facing pressures from neighboring clans and the impact of European trade, Shaka reorganized the Zulu military, adopting new tactics and weaponry that led to rapid expansion and the establishment of a centralized state.

The Zulu military campaigns resulted in the subjugation of surrounding tribes and the absorption of various populations, contributing to a broader socio-political upheaval known as the Mfecane. This period was characterized by violence and displacement as traditional warfare transitioned to more aggressive conquests. The Zulu victories not only reshaped regional dynamics but also fostered a distinct Zulu identity that persists today. Despite facing challenges from rival tribes and colonial powers, the Zulu Kingdom emerged as a powerful independent state until its eventual conquest by the British in 1879. The legacy of this expansion profoundly influenced the social and political landscape of southern Africa.

Zulu Expansion | History | Research Starters | EBSCOhost

<p>Zulu Expansion refers to a significant period of territorial growth and military development among the Zulu people in the early nineteenth century, centered in what is now Zululand, South Africa. Initially a small clan-based society, the Zulu transformed under the leadership of Shaka, who...

www.ebsco.com

 

[theprestige]

Polynesians were evil white dudes?

Phoenicians, too. It's evil white dudes all the way down.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

But you're not navigating across oceans.

No, I'm mostly hiking mountains, and if I pull out a paper map, it's based on the UTM projection. I'm also trained to use, and make, maps for purposes like nature conservation and city planning. Guess what, we used UTM a lot in our uni GIS projects, because it's incredibly precise, same reason it's used by police, rescue workers, the military, etc. We were trained to put the coordinate system at the bottom of all our maps, so I know the line 'ETRS UTM 1989 sone 32N' by heart. We didn't always use it, of course --my GIS exam project was a map showing the prevalence of domestic violence in Europe, and for that I used a conic projection because it made the most sense in showing Europe.

To be honest I'm not even sure what you mean when you say the original purpose of the Mercator projection isn't there anymore. The main purpose was to be a map projection that allows someone to plot a course and be able to draw it as a straight line on a map. Given people still plot bearings and read them on maps, the projection's original purpose remains.

And again, even with the copout that 'you can just use GPS', chances are said GPS uses the Mercator projection.
Like saying algebra is obsolete and not needed anymore because today people use calculators.