Merged Arday life and death

[SpuriusMaximus]

I think the only relevant point is that there have always been people who have undeservedly obtained university placements, qualifications and appointments because of who they are rather than because of their actual abilities. The current example is undoubtedly as unfair and unacceptable as any and all of the previous examples, but is perhaps attracting more than its fair share of objections in comparison.

Yeah, that's unfortunately not unusual. And not just who they are. Being a brazen bald-faced liar works too.

Not academia, but all my job interviews (both actually being hired and as a consultant for a client) have led me to the conclusion that being arrogantly self-confident, or at least appearing to be, is routinely mistaken for competence. Even when I warn them up front that I'm arrogant. (You know, that biggest weakness question, yadda yadda.)

Hell, even starting in the army, the other platoon was going on guard duty and was inspected personally by the unit's colonel about knowing their duties and such. Their clown (a corporal) stood tall and saluted, and in the most confident voice and absolute poker face started listing guarding stuff that weren't even in our compound. The colonel praised him in front of everyone for being the model soldier everyone should aspire to be. I wish I was making this up. He was the company's unofficial legendary hero ever after. Even the actual commissioned officers. His lieutenant LOVED it. Like, f me, I don't even know how he fit those massive balls inside the standard army pants

(ETA: Just to clarify: he had been there long enough to know every single nook and cranny in the compound. He just suddenly felt like BS-ing the bloody unit commander. That's bowling sized balls)

 

[Vixen]

Yes, me centre
I regard the repugnant right and the loony left with equal derision. I despise both ends of the political spectrum
I am pro choice. My posting history and body of work here will back that up. My position on this puts me on the left and at odds with the right.
I am pro women's rights to safe spaces, and again, my posting history will back that up. My position on this me on the right and at odds with the left.

You're not centre. I'm centre.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

You're not centre. I'm centre.

You're confusing "centre" with "loony"

 

[Helen]

I think the only relevant point is that there have always been people who have undeservedly obtained university placements, qualifications and appointments because of who they are rather than because of their actual abilities. The current example is undoubtedly as unfair and unacceptable as any and all of the previous examples, but is perhaps attracting more than its fair share of objections in comparison.

This is what sticks out about it to me; the far right crazies here in Sweden are up in arms about this. They have, to my knowledge, never so much as mentioned academic fraud before, much less discussed it. Now they do so gleefully.

It seems clear that he wasn't what he pretended to be, but the furore is very strange. There was a truly horrifying case here some years ago, involving a high profile surgeon who had purportedly performed successful experimental trachea surgeries. He killed seven of the eight patients he operated on here. Killed. He had lied about some of his credentials, and some of his research was later found to be fraudulent, and he is now in prison.

This has of course been disussed in academic and medical circles, and talked about in the media, but despite the fact that Macchiarini was the cause of several deaths, solely due to his seemingly complete disregard for human life, his name has never reached the kind of herostratic fame that Arday's has.

 

[dirtywick]

i think if one were to look into who’s financing the far right in europe and the far right in the us you’d see a lot of the same groups. obviously if you’re one of the people genuinely concerned about fraud in academia it sucks that anti woke politics has been injected into something you’re passionate about, but putting your head in the sand because you find it annoying isn’t doing you any favors imo

 

[Helen]

i think if one were to look into who’s financing the far right in europe and the far right in the us you’d see a lot of the same groups. obviously if you’re one of the people genuinely concerned about fraud in academia it sucks that anti woke politics has been injected into something you’re passionate about, but putting your head in the sand because you find it annoying isn’t doing you any favors imo

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Darat]

I mean, effectively it already kinda is. Just not by giving them extra points on the GPA (or not overtly), but hiring a 2.0 GPA guy over a 4.0 guy, because the former OBVIOUSLY had a harder time, generational wealth, systemic discrimination, yadda, yadda

And that type of discrimination would be illegal in the UK. What would not be illegal is allowing for different routes to qualify for a role. I’ve had to deal with idiots at companies that wanted to have a degree as a requirement for certain roles, so it would have meant a programmer who had 20 years of experience of game development and had a few triple A titles under their belts but no degree wouldn’t have met the role requirement, but someone the day after graduating with a degree (that hadn’t even existed when the 20 year experienced programmer got into games) would. It’s this type of issue that often has to be challenged because it will often exclude talented people for the wrong reasons.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

And that type of discrimination would be illegal in the UK. What would not be illegal is allowing for different routes to qualify for a role. I’ve had to deal with idiots at companies that wanted to have a degree as a requirement for certain roles, so it would have meant a programmer who had 20 years of experience of game development and had a few triple A titles under their belts but no degree wouldn’t have met the role requirement, but someone the day after graduating with a degree (that hadn’t even existed when the 20 year experienced programmer got into games) would. It’s this type of issue that often has to be challenged because it will often exclude talented people for the wrong reasons.

You mean like specifically creating a professor job of Sociology of PE?

 

[Darat]

You mean like specifically creating a professor job of Sociology of PE?

I’m on the more dubious side of whether his role had any utility or not, but I’m getting old and these modern things are of course wrong because it wasn’t like that in my day… But slightly more serious I have created roles specifically for individuals in the past so it’s not that out-of-kilter but from what I’ve read this wasn’t a role created for him was it? That’s why there were additional candidates to just him.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

[....] his name has never reached the kind of herostratic fame that Arday's has.

I'll say this for Arday: So far as I know, he isn't an arsonist.

Thank you for teaching me a new word.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I’m on the more dubious side of whether his role had any utility or not, but I’m getting old and these modern things are of course wrong because it wasn’t like that in my day… But slightly more serious I have created roles specifically for individuals in the past so it’s not that out-of-kilter but from what I’ve read this wasn’t a role created for him was it? That’s why there were additional candidates to just him.

Yes, but it's not even the sociology of sports or such, but specifically of PE in school. How many things ARE there to study in that very narrow field? One or two polls and you're done. Quest completed.

To put it in game dev terms (which I also had a brief-ish stint in), it's like having someone be a professor of designing menus. Not even general game design or even UI design, but specifically designing menus.

 

[Darat]

Yes, but it's not even the sociology of sports or such, but specifically of PE in school. How many things ARE there to study in that very narrow field? One or two polls and you're done. Quest completed.

To put it in game dev terms (which I also had a brief-ish stint in), it's like having someone be a professor of designing menus. Not even general game design or even UI design, but specifically designing menus.

Oh I don’t know you could get quite a few papers out of the sociology behind why I was usually picked last for any team sport in PE!

 

[Rolfe]

I think with Arday that it was the combination of academic fraud and the string of wildly implausible fairy-stories he told about his personal life that triggered the wider interest.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I think with Arday that it was the combination of academic fraud and the string of wildly implausible fairy-stories he told about his personal life that triggered the wider interest.

That and the wild stories of him sicing the cops and PR agencies to silence any critics.

 

[ahhell]

That and the wild stories of him sicing the cops and PR agencies to silence any critics.

That particularly plays into the US right's interest in the story, they love any story about UK police looking into some police investigation into harassment that most folks would be surprised the cops didn't laugh out of the room.

 

[smartcooky]

That particularly plays into the US right's interest in the story, they love any story about UK police looking into some police investigation into harassment that most folks would be surprised the cops didn't laugh out of the room.

... and its not as if it would be their first rodeo is it - the UK is rife with cops investigating hurty words that wouldn't even get a second glance anywhere else in the world. The UK left really have turned into a bunch of pathetic snowflakes.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is what sticks out about it to me; the far right crazies here in Sweden are up in arms about this. They have, to my knowledge, never so much as mentioned academic fraud before, much less discussed it. Now they do so gleefully.

It seems clear that he wasn't what he pretended to be, but the furore is very strange. There was a truly horrifying case here some years ago, involving a high profile surgeon who had purportedly performed successful experimental trachea surgeries. He killed seven of the eight patients he operated on here. Killed. He had lied about some of his credentials, and some of his research was later found to be fraudulent, and he is now in prison.

This has of course been disussed in academic and medical circles, and talked about in the media, but despite the fact that Macchiarini was the cause of several deaths, solely due to his seemingly complete disregard for human life, his name has never reached the kind of herostratic fame that Arday's has.

I think there are some additional factors that play into this situation.

Consider - was your fraudulent surgeon protected by the medical association, who insisted they were an exemplary surgeon of extreme skill well above others of their same age and experience? Was that surgeon publicly lauded as being the youngest ever and the top of their field, and an example to others? When their fraud was exposed, did the surgeon successfully enlist the police as well as an expensive law firm in order to silence and intimidate those outing them? Did legions of people come out of the woodworks to defend the fraudulent surgeon and attack all those displeased by their fraud, and cast all of them as evil bigots?

If the earlier claims of fraud by Arday had been taken seriously, instead of those questioning them being subjected to threats and intimidation, then I doubt we would ever have heard much about it. Had Cambridge not lauded Arday's unbelievable backstory as so inspirational and put them in front of several spotlights, there would have been much less furore. Had Arday's accusers been treated with a modicum of seriousness rather than being attacked, it would have died down quickly.

Arday's falsehoods were the prompt... but it's been the response that has generated so much interest and argument.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I’m on the more dubious side of whether his role had any utility or not, but I’m getting old and these modern things are of course wrong because it wasn’t like that in my day… But slightly more serious I have created roles specifically for individuals in the past so it’s not that out-of-kilter but from what I’ve read this wasn’t a role created for him was it? That’s why there were additional candidates to just him.

One of Arday's prior roles was Sociology of PE. The Cambridge professorship was Sociology of Education... which is a much broader scope.

 

[Ziggurat]

Arday's falsehoods were the prompt... but it's been the response that has generated so much interest and argument.

It's not the crime, it's the cover up.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think with Arday that it was the combination of academic fraud and the string of wildly implausible fairy-stories he told about his personal life that triggered the wider interest.

I think that generated the original interest... mostly because a whole lot of people with normal brains looked at the list of trials and extraordinary events and said "well, that seems unlikely" but the people who we're told have exceptional brains seemingly said "oh sure, that's totally plausible, nothing at all fishy about that". So we poor normies are left wondering what's wrong with the folks in charge of teaching all of us.

But the absolute bulk of the discussion and social media blow-up was mostly caused by the people who came out of the woodworks to defend Arday while simultaneously calling people racists if they dared to say that Arday's story was hinky.