Merged Arday life and death

[SpuriusMaximus]

I'd love to see equity put in place for grades. You know, some kids get a 4.0, and others get a 2.0... we should take some of the GPA from those with 4.0s, because obviously they have unearned privileges that let them get those grades. We should give some of the GPA to those unfortunates who have been oppressed and discriminated against, thus preventing them from getting their fair share of grades.

I mean, effectively it already kinda is. Just not by giving them extra points on the GPA (or not overtly), but hiring a 2.0 GPA guy over a 4.0 guy, because the former OBVIOUSLY had a harder time, generational wealth, systemic discrimination, yadda, yadda

 

[theprestige]

I'm flabbergasted, though I probably shouldn't be, by the response this one simple little joke triggered in this thread. Pages and pages of posts from people who seem genuinely upset by this little jab at their Dear Leader. And before you accuse me of being off-topic, this is exactly the kind of pearl-clutching defensiveness they accuse 'woke' people and institutions of wrt to Arday. Has this guy made himself guilty of fraud and lies? Doesn't matter, defend and excuse him at all costs.

It's like the 'DEI hire' thing I referred to earlier, where the (far) right is way more obsessed with superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation than the moderates and leftists will ever be.

Every accusation. Every time.

It'd be nice to have one discussion that didn't turn into someone's Trump inclusion fetish.

And gaslighting us about DEI priorities doesn't make it seem any less like you're contributing to the problem of hires like Arday.

 

[dirtywick]

So, whataboutism instead of addressing anything of substance? Well, colour me impressed. I never would have guessed

if this isn’t a manufactured left vs right thing and is really about the dangerous consequences of fraud in academics, it isn’t really a whataboutism but just another example of something similar. why was it received so poorly i wonder

 

[Emily's Cat]

@smartcooky generalized beyond Arday and the University of Cambridge to say

These elite institutions have spent 100s of years becoming elite and prestigious, only to throw it all away for the sake of woke ideology in less than a couple of decades.​

@a_unique_person cited a specific example of that:

I've even heard there's this really dumb white guy who got an economics science degree from an Ivy League University once. How did that happen?​

@smartcooky seemed to doubt that hearsay example, asking

Did he lie about his upbringing?​

Did he make exaggerated, outrageous and false claims about his feats of athleticism?​

Did make bogus claims about raising millions of £/$ for charity?​

Did he falsely claim that he did work in foreign countries for charity organizations?​

Did he plagiarize the thesis of another degree candidate?​

Did he copy large swathes of others' work and claim it to be his own?​

​

No? ​

​

Then where's the problem?​

For the specific example @a_unique_person had in mind, the answers to four or five of those "Did he" questions is an unqualified "Yes." Because @smartcooky appears to be unfamiliar with the person being discussed, @a_unique_person offered more detail about that specific example:

He lies all the time including about his athletic achievements. He should never have got in to the course list let alone graduate. He's not the only one. Numerous rich kids get a pass and everyone knows it.​

He's got idiots on his team who are supposed to be University lecturers who are as dumb as him at economics.​

@smartcooky, seemingly unaware that such things happen even at Ivy League universities within the United States, wrote:

Then investigate him. If you find something dodgy, publish it.​

As I pointed out, investigation of one specific "really dumb white guy who got an economics science degree from an Ivy University", who was almost certainly the specific example being discussed above, has been forbidden by the US Supreme Court. The court's ruling does not forbid investigation of other "idiots on his team who are supposed to be University lecturers who are as dumb as him at economics," but the chilling effect of that ruling upon investigations of his team has been pretty obvious.

The relevance to this thread should also be obvious. What the United States is going through right now is a spectacular example of what can happen when unqualified liars and frauds (even convicted frauds!) get a pass due to their family's wealth and political connections. Arday's family was middle class, and Arday (to my knowledge) was never convicted of fraud, but he too appears to have been an unqualified liar and fraud who got promoted for dubious reasons.

For the love of all rationality, can we please, please not trump up every single goddamned thread ever? Holy crap, it's more prevalent than godwinning. JFC, can we just talk about something without having to introduce trump into it?

 

[smartcooky]

I'm flabbergasted, though I probably shouldn't be, by the response this one simple little joke triggered in this thread.

I didn't get the "joke" until a few posts later. Too obtuse for me.

Pages and pages of posts from people who seem genuinely upset by this little jab at their Dear Leader.

The Fat Orange Turd is NOT my Dear Leader.

And before you accuse me of being off-topic, this is exactly the kind of pearl-clutching defensiveness they accuse 'woke' people and institutions of wrt to Arday. Has this guy made himself guilty of fraud and lies? Doesn't matter, defend and excuse him at all costs.

No-one here clutched any pearls, except perhaps @W.D.Clinger

It's like the 'DEI hire' thing I referred to earlier, where the (far) right is way more obsessed with superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation than the moderates and leftists will ever be.

And yet its the loony left who wholeheartedly embrace the mandating of preferential considerations over "superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation". Most of us in the center just want fair hiring/appointment practices and a level playing field based on a candidate's ability to do the job or task REGARDLESS of "superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation"

Every accusation. Every time.

You seem implacably opposed to fairness. Unsurprising!

 

[smartcooky]

For the love of all rationality, can we please, please not trump up every single goddamned thread ever? Holy crap, it's more prevalent than godwinning. JFC, can we just talk about something without having to introduce trump into it?

Amen to that.

Q: Why can't Donald Trump be circumcised?
A: Because there's no end to the prick!

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm flabbergasted, though I probably shouldn't be, by the response this one simple little joke triggered in this thread. Pages and pages of posts from people who seem genuinely upset by this little jab at their Dear Leader. And before you accuse me of being off-topic, this is exactly the kind of pearl-clutching defensiveness they accuse 'woke' people and institutions of wrt to Arday. Has this guy made himself guilty of fraud and lies? Doesn't matter, defend and excuse him at all costs.

Well that's just straight up baloney. The response was "go ahead and go investigate Trump then". There wasn't a single bit of defense or excuses.

 

[smartcooky]

This sums it up for me...

64K views · 2.9K reactions | Jason Arday was protected to death by DEI. His lies went unscrutinized because he was black. Avoiding the truth hurt him and black people. Comment “Honest” and I’ll send you a link to the full video. | thatskaizen

Jason Arday was protected to death by DEI. His lies went unscrutinized because he was black. Avoiding the truth hurt him and black people. Comment “Honest” and I’ll send you a link to the full video.

www.facebook.com

 

[a_unique_person]

So, whataboutism instead of addressing anything of substance? Well, colour me impressed. I never would have guessed

The claim was that this is not about racism but about maintaining academic standards. The academy has always been compromised by it's exclusivity and networks of wealth. The elite private schools have so much money they don't know what to do with it but they make so the fees high to make sure they keep the lower classes out. Two of the biggest idiots on Trump's team have qualifications even better than Trump's yet they are stuck in a 17th century understanding of how economies work.

 

[Vixen]

I didn't get the "joke" until a few posts later. Too obtuse for me.


The Fat Orange Turd is NOT my Dear Leader.



No-one here clutched any pearls, except perhaps @W.D.Clinger


And yet its the loony left who wholeheartedly embrace the mandating of preferential considerations over "superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation". Most of us in the
center just want fair hiring/appointment practices and a level playing field based on a candidate's ability to do the job or task REGARDLESS of "superficial traits like gender, race, and sexual orientation"


You seem implacably opposed to fairness. Unsurprising!

You, 'centre'?

The parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right

 

[theprestige]

The claim was that this is not about racism but about maintaining academic standards. The academy has always been compromised by it's exclusivity and networks of wealth. The elite private schools have so much money they don't know what to do with it but they make so the fees high to make sure they keep the lower classes out. Two of the biggest idiots on Trump's team have qualifications even better than Trump's yet they are stuck in a 17th century understanding of how economies work.

At least they have some idea. Unlike the Education department at Cambridge, which doesn't seem to have any idea at all how education works.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

I think the entire derail needs throwing in AAH.

There does appear to be some healthy disagreement concerning whether this thread should be limited to the specific case of Jason Arday, or should permit discussion of a general phenomenon of which he is but a recently exposed example.

I recall your objection to such non-Arday examples when @angrysoba mentioned the case of Juan Manuel Corchado:

Bloody hell. Surely that would raise a few suspicions. Or at least eyebrows.

What Trump has in common with Arday is that elite institutions failed them both by granting special favor regardless of merit.

*Exception: Mark Burnett^WP discovered genuine talent, it's too bad he only tapped one of these two men for stardom.

Well, there were significant differences between the two men. For example: Jason Arday didn't have an uncle who taught at one of those institutes whose quality control fills @theprestige with such disgust, a place @Ziggurat wants to nuke from orbit.

It'd be nice to have one discussion that didn't turn into someone's Trump inclusion fetish.

Because we're here to indulge someone's exclusion fetish?

if this isn’t a manufactured left vs right thing and is really about the dangerous consequences of fraud in academics, it isn’t really a whataboutism but just another example of something similar. why was it received so poorly i wonder

We should thank our lucky stars no one has mentioned George Santos.

For the love of all rationality, can we please, please not trump up every single goddamned thread ever? Holy crap, it's more prevalent than godwinning. JFC, can we just talk about something without having to introduce trump into it?

To be fair, the guy often insists upon being the center of attention.

Oh please!! Stop being so stupidly obtuse. I said I agree TO THE PART I HIGHLIGHTED.

I didn't get the "joke" until a few posts later. Too obtuse for me.

That's why I gave you a hint.

The claim was that this is not about racism but about maintaining academic standards. The academy has always been compromised by it's exclusivity and networks of wealth. The elite private schools have so much money they don't know what to do with it but they make so the fees high to make sure they keep the lower classes out. Two of the biggest idiots on Trump's team have qualifications even better than Trump's yet they are stuck in a 17th century understanding of how economies work.

Well, there's your mistake. Someone said this isn't about racism, but about maintaining academic standards. You thought they were being serious, and would welcome white-skinned examples in support of their claim. Silly you.

You come breezing in here, not understanding the topic, clearly not having read the thread, and start lying about what people have posted, quoting them out of context and going on political tirades.

Take your bull-◊◊◊◊ to the Trump thread. Your political rantings are off topic here

There's no way you could know, because I prefer to write only about things I sort of understand, and only when I have something to say, but I've read almost everything written within this thread.

I don't think you can identify any actual lie I have told here. You can, however, point to several folks who, in the course of what proved to be their political rants, accused me of lying. I suppose that will have to do.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't think you can identify any actual lie I have told here.

You actually believed smartcooky was talking about law enforcement?

That's not actually better than you lying.

 

[theprestige]

I don't think you can identify any actual lie I have told here.

... Is what I would say if people were questioning the truth of all the tall tales in my autobiography and CV.

 

[smartcooky]

You actually believed smartcooky was talking about law enforcement?

That's not actually better than you lying.

To be honest, I don't think he ever thought I was talking about law enforcement, I think he just ignored the highlight and the context because it was easier to make it fit his narrative.

 

[smartcooky]

You, 'centre'?

Yes, me centre
I regard the repugnant right and the loony left with equal derision. I despise both ends of the political spectrum
I am pro choice. My posting history and body of work here will back that up. My position on this puts me on the left and at odds with the right.
I am pro women's rights to safe spaces, and again, my posting history will back that up. My position on this me on the right and at odds with the left.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

The claim was that this is not about racism but about maintaining academic standards. The academy has always been compromised by it's exclusivity and networks of wealth. The elite private schools have so much money they don't know what to do with it but they make so the fees high to make sure they keep the lower classes out. Two of the biggest idiots on Trump's team have qualifications even better than Trump's yet they are stuck in a 17th century understanding of how economies work.

That's mostly the case in the USA. Other countries subsidise education heavily. Since we're talking specifically Cambridge, it costs almost exactly 10k a year if you're a UK citizen or family member. That ain't gonna bankrupt anyone. And you can take a loan directly from the government for it.

Source: https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/fees-funding/tuition-fees

Basically people would do well to stop assuming that the rest of the world is like the USA, and projecting USA politics and talking points on everything.

 

[Rolfe]

This really doesn't have anything to do with the USA or Trump and I wish people would drop it.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

This really doesn't have anything to do with the USA or Trump and I wish people would drop it.

Yeah, well, I guess the ultra-polarised USA activist muppets (on both sides) would just go limp if they didn't have someone else's hand up their behind giving them lines to say. It's like expecting Kermit to actually have a thought of his own for a change. What can ya do?

 

[Pixel42]

This really doesn't have anything to do with the USA or Trump and I wish people would drop it.

I think the only relevant point is that there have always been people who have undeservedly obtained university placements, qualifications and appointments because of who they are rather than because of their actual abilities. The current example is undoubtedly as unfair and unacceptable as any and all of the previous examples, but is perhaps attracting more than its fair share of objections in comparison.