Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

And it also goes back to CSAM prosecutions are not about a 18 year old playing a 15 year old, they are about sexual abuse of prepubescent children.

Now you are clearly contradicting yourself aren't you:

In the UK it is illegal to produce or consume any pornography that depicts the participants as being under 18 regardless of the participants actual age. To do so could lead to you being imprisoned for up to 10 years, heavy fines and being for the rest of your life on the "sex offenders" list.

Why didn't you state here that you meant participants as being prepubescent?
Do CMIIW.

 

[theprestige]

It would be a re-run.

Thanks. I appreciate you being clear.

Any material that contains underage roleplaying. Huge numbers of UK citizens will be accessing this kind of material (lots and lots of it created in the USA) right now.

The law is not being enforced. We know from that Guardian article that former BBC present Huw Edwards didn't even go to prison...and he had images that contained penetration.

"Barely legal" roleplaying is not underage roleplaying by definition. Full stop.

 

[Poem]

"Barely legal" roleplaying is not underage roleplaying by definition. Full stop.

I didn't use the phrase 'barely legal'. I don't understand your sentence. In the UK, any content that attempts to portray the underage is illegal.

 

[arthwollipot]

It would be a re-run.

Any material that contains underage roleplaying.

In none of the "barely legal" porn I've seen is there underage roleplaying.

I didn't use the phrase 'barely legal'. I don't understand your sentence. In the UK, any content that attempts to portray the underage is illegal.

Correct. None of the porn I've seen contains any content that attempts to portray the underage.

What they do attempt to portray is overage, but young. In fact they make it very clear that the fictional characters they are portraying are intended to be 18+.

 

[Lithrael]

In the UK, any content that attempts to portray the underage is illegal.

Were you ever able to acknowledge that it's clear from legally published, legally rated by the BBFC, porn films on DVD in the UK, that sixth form school costumes and talk of naughty students and teachers do not, legally speaking, 'create the predominant impression that the persons shown are children,' which is the letter of the law in the UK?

 

[dirtywick]

A (claimed by practitioners) neurophysiological phenomenon in which hypoxia enhances orgasm.

Does it "work?" No idea. I used to be able to hold my breath in a relaxed state for well over seven minutes, but it never had any erotic side effects on me. That falls short of a full test of the practice, though.

see, i have heard the same and i think that's pretty interesting.

i think dann has made a pretty convincing case that porn has popularized and therefore in a way normalized strangulation during sex. i don't find it particularly far fetched that people saw it in porn, tried it themselves, and then liked it after they did. so, for that much i find that to be a perfectly plausible claim. particularly if there is some truth behind enhancing an orgasm. people watched sex and learned a more enjoyable way to do it, in that case.

i would imagine statistically there's also a lot of strangulation in sexual abuse and rape as well. i've only ever seen stuff like that in the movies, and not porn movies but theatrical movies, and there seems to be a lot of that in those depictions.

so, given that, i think it's an interesting question as to whether or not porn proliferating strangulation during sex is strictly a negative.

 

[theprestige]

The irony is that if Poem were to argue against the way porn is increasingly accessible to young people, and the way rough sex is being normalized, in tandem with that accessibility to young people?

I'd probably be 100% in agreement.

 

[Lithrael]

It's a negative in as far as anything that is best done with a reasonable amount of background knowledge, but inspires people to try it by the seat of their pants because it looks simple, is a negative. But that's a general social imitation risk.

 

[theprestige]

They say it takes a village, but nowadays kids are learning about sex from an industry that's based entirely on exploiting their unfiltered urges. That can't be good, even if it doesn't feed into rape culture.

 

[dirtywick]

It's a negative in as far as anything that is best done with a reasonable amount of background knowledge, but inspires people to try it by the seat of their pants because it looks simple, is a negative. But that's a general social imitation risk.

i think you could find negatives and positives to many things. any sex at all opens you up to being potentially exposed to things like heartache or disease or unexpected pregnancy, and so on.

so to me, internet porn has popularized strangulation, yeah. that's bad? perhaps. not sure the case has been made.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

But, again, to go back to the thread title, none of that is RAPE. Porn is consensual among paid actors. Anyone trying it consensually (misguided as it might be) isn't involved in RAPE.

 

[theprestige]

i think you could find negatives and positives to many things. any sex at all opens you up to being potentially exposed to things like heartache or disease or unexpected pregnancy, and so on.

so to me, internet porn has popularized strangulation, yeah. that's bad? perhaps. not sure the case has been made.

When it comes to sexual intimacy, I prefer to err on the side of you have to make the case that it's good.

How much of the porn readily accessible teenagers emphasizes leaving the choking for later, and focusing on what actually makes your neophyte partner comfortable and excited?

None. None of it. That's not good.

 

[Lithrael]

True, fair enough. But why is it being given the responsibility of being educational? It's entertainment, and not for kids. Are we picturing something like the little PSAs they put at the end of GI Joe episodes?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Porn is consensual among paid actors.

Not always.

 

[theprestige]

Not always.

 

[dirtywick]

But, again, to go back to the thread title, none of that is RAPE. Porn is consensual among paid actors. Anyone trying it consensually (misguided as it might be) isn't involved in RAPE.

i agree it's not rape. one of the points i'm trying to make is that the case hasn't been made that strangulation in porn is contributing to whatever one would think of when they think of a rape culture. they might like it because they think it makes them feel good.

i don't think there is a whole lot of aggressive or violent looking pornography on most popular porn sites. so any strangulation seen in that context is in the context of a porn video featuring consensual sex. i don't think the case has been made that since strangulation is commonly thought to be a violent act, that when you see it in a consensual sexual video that it turns the video into a violent rape culture video. and it seems to me a lot of the arguments being made in the porn is contributing to a rape culture side are taking that premise as a given

 

[theprestige]

True, fair enough. But why is it being given the responsibility of being educational? It's entertainment, and not for kids. Are we picturing something like the little PSAs they put at the end of GI Joe episodes?

Nobody is taking responsibility for teaching healthy sexual relationships to children.

Instead you're falling all over yourself, trying to make excuses for a porn industry that's spamming undifferentiated kinks to children without restraint.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

i agree it's not rape. one of the points i'm trying to make is that the case hasn't been made that strangulation in porn is contributing to whatever one would think of when they think of a rape culture. they might like it because they think it makes them feel good.

I suppose so, but then they could get lots of crazy ideas from there. But then it makes them no more an expert on porn than it made Dr Christmas (real name, btw) an expert on aeronautics and thinking that it's normal for an aircraft's wings to flap because bird wings do too. (Again, wish I were kidding. From his testimony before congress, when the prototype's wings fell off and it killed the pilot.)

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Nobody is taking responsibility for teaching healthy sexual relationships to children.

Instead you're falling all over yourself, trying to make excuses for a porn industry that's spamming undifferentiated kinks to children without restraint.

I mean, they're already trying to build age verification right into the OS. Not sure what more do you want the industry to do. Keep it strictly missionary vaginal cishet? I assure you that someone would get wrong ideas even from that too.

And it happened before porn movies being so freely available on the internet too. We had a female forum member (can't remember which) who years ago confessed to reading the rape-as-a-declaration-of-love scene in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" as a teen and allegedly ran to her mom to ask if getting raped was so romantic and cool. Which resulted in her being told some version of "Are you DAFT?"

And it seems to me like the responsibility of sex education is on the parents and school. Nobody expects Legalporno to have the responsibility to put out sex education tutorials

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

To be fair, I don't think Poem is watching a lot of porn. His argument doesn't require it, and a lot of his arguments suggest an unfamiliarity with the genre, its fans, and its distribution.

Doesn't that make it even dumber then? It's like someone raging about how all SF involves lightsabers, because... they've watched exactly none.