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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

If you have to have it explained to you why CSAM is abhorrent then the gulf between us is too deep to ever be breached by words.
The particular CSAM I am talking about features legal actors. That is ZERO children. Such content is legal in the US - so asking you why you deem it abhorrent is a valid question. I think it is abhorrent - but plenty do not.

You aren't going to answer are you? - and I stated the reason why above.
 
Sidetrack, but this reminded me of something from my past. Many years ago I worked for a LaserDisc distributor who had customers (retailers) all over the USofA, and a few in Canada. One day we received a 40-count box back that had been sent to a Canadian customer, but stopped at the border and sent back to us. Inside were a few dozen porn discs, all of them opened on one side, and a long letter on official customs/border control letterhead. The letter listed each title in the box, along with time-stamps with comments like "32:10.5 scene appear to show sex with coercion. It's importation into Canada is therefore prohibited.", and others along that line. Not "participant appears under-aged", or "sex with animals". Just "wait, that's non-cis het missionary content detected!".

Mind you, these weren't underground amateur 8mm reels. These were put out by a major LD manufacturer ( Image Entertainment ) who also did loads of non-porn films.

This led all of us working there at the time to the realization that some customs officer(s) had to sit down and watch every single one of the 50 or so discs in the original shipment, potentially all the way through, to see if there was any objectionable content at any point in any of them. While taking detailed notes.

I have absolutely zero evidence for this part, but I'd like to think it was someone who espoused some of the same anti-porn rhetoric as has been seen in this thread, and that he tried really really hard to convince himself that he only watched the discs for his job, and The Greater Good(tm).
To be fair, I don't think Poem is watching a lot of porn. His argument doesn't require it, and a lot of his arguments suggest an unfamiliarity with the genre, its fans, and its distribution.
 
Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 2002.
Fair enough. Some depictions of children engaged in sex are legal in the US, if adult actors are used. Actually I think some such depictions might be legal even if child actors are used. The issue in Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition was that the laws at the time were overbroad, also criminalizing things like Romeo and Juliet, and medical texts. I seem to recall we've been over this before, and that you don't have a problem with overbroad laws.
 
Why does Darat find content that features legal actors simulating underage porn 'abhorrent' for any other reason than that it facilitates the kind of dark rabbit holes The Guardian article I posted outlines?
I'm guessing you haven't thought it through. Because if you actually have just have escalation as the reason to object to child porn... OMG, that's such a nonce stance...
 
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I'm guessing you haven't thought it through. Because if you actually just have escalation as the reason to object to child porn... OMG, that's such a nonce stance...
The debate with Darat is about 18+ actors. You must have missed that bit.
 
Furthermore, nobody has to prove to you that flying pigs don't exist. Proving the nonexistence of something is logically impossible, since flying pigs could be just over the next ridge, and you haven't been there yet. There can be no evidence that something doesn't exist - that's a logical contradiction.
Yeah, I wasn't clear. I meant in the generic "you". One doesn't owe someone making the positive claim to do the research and prove it for them. But yeah I could have phrased it a lot better.
 
The debate with Darat is about 18+ actors. You must have missed that bit.
Was it? Because the last few pages have been about an article about people having images involving actual children, some as young as 7 years old. I don't think many 18+ people can actually pass for a 7 year old.

Anyway, the concept of adults pretending to be children having sex, especially with an adult, is not legally objectionable, but many of us find it icky because of what it pretends to depict. Like, why does someone specifically watch that depiction? Wouldn't they get a hard-on just the same if those didn't pretend to be children? Or does it scratch the same itch while technically not being a crime? I don't need escalation to find it icky that someone is looking for something pretending to be child porn.
 
Just for clarity, can you give an example of the particular child sexual abuse material featuring legal actors, that you are talking about? I don't want to re-run the discussion of "barely legal", if that's all you mean.
It would be a re-run.

Any material that contains underage roleplaying. Huge numbers of UK citizens will be accessing this kind of material (lots and lots of it created in the USA) right now.

The law is not being enforced. We know from that Guardian article that former BBC present Huw Edwards didn't even go to prison...and he had images that contained penetration.
 
The particular CSAM I am talking about features legal actors. That is ZERO children. Such content is legal in the US - so asking you why you deem it abhorrent is a valid question. I think it is abhorrent - but plenty do not.

You aren't going to answer are you? - and I stated the reason why above.
You have just described it as CSAM - I find CSAM abhorrent, again if you don't understand why CSAM is abhorrent I really have no way to communicate with you - that you don't find CSAM to be abhorrent is very concerning to me.
 
Was it? Because the last few pages have been about an article about people having images involving actual children, some as young as 7 years old. I don't think many 18+ people can actually pass for a 7 year old.
Both are being discussed separately.
Anyway, the concept of adults pretending to be children having sex, especially with an adult, is not legally objectionable,
It is in the UK.
but many of us find it icky because of what it pretends to depict. Like, why does someone specifically watch that depiction? Wouldn't they get a hard-on just the same if those didn't pretend to be children? Or does it scratch the same itch while technically not being a crime? I don't need escalation to find it icky that someone is looking for something pretending to be child porn.
It's abhorrent because it can and does lead folk down the rabbit hole to CSAM (the sort that actually involves minors).
 
It's abhorrent because it can and does lead folk down the rabbit hole to CSAM (the sort that actually involves minors).
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But some of us find it icky as is, not for some slippery slope.

Plus, as Darat already said, you were talking about CSAM, in your own question. How was I supposed to know that it means "but not really CSAM"? :P
 
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You have just described it as CSAM - I find CSAM abhorrent, again if you don't understand why CSAM is abhorrent I really have no way to communicate with you - that you don't find CSAM to be abhorrent is very concerning to me.
I stated that I don't find CSAM to be abhorrent where?
American's don't (in general) find such legal age porn abhorrent. Why do you?
 
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But some of us find it icky as is, not for some slippery slope.

Plus, as Darat already said, you were talking about CSAM, in your own question. How was I supposed to know that it means "but not really CSAM"? :P
And it has not been shown there is a slippery slope.

And it also goes back to CSAM prosecutions are not about a 18 year old playing a 15 year old, they are about sexual abuse of prepubescent children.
 
I stated that I don't find CSAM to be abhorrent where?
American's don't (in general) find such legal age porn abhorrent. Why do you?
You keep asking me why I find CSAM abhorrent - I was assuming therefore that it was not a reaction you share in. Again you are asking me why I find CSAM abhorrent, why are you doing that if you also find it abhorrent? You should be able to answer your own question.
 
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It would be a re-run.

Any material that contains underage roleplaying.
Were you ever able to acknowledge that it's clear from legally published, legally rated porn films on DVD in the UK that sixth form school costumes and talk of naughty students and teachers do not, legally speaking, create the predominant impression that the persons shown are children, which is the letter of the law in the UK?
 
You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But some of us find it icky as is, not for some slippery slope.
There is a huge market for this legal age / underage simulation type material. Countries like the US are major producers of it. They don't find it icky. Lots of money being made off of it right now.
 

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