Zohran Mamdani

[Segnosaur]

After a bit of a rethink, I've concluded the stores will take on the character of German capitalism in the form Aldi and Lidl. (I realize now the city has warehouses, so that's not a problem.) Unlike Sam's Club or Costco it'll likely contain no name brands, but instead generic items instead, considering slotting and other fees in grocery stores which require selling ten thousand cases per year just to break even.

Generics would be cheaper for the consumer, and in fact they have announced that one of the goals is the development of a "private brand label" to use in the stores (although they don't mention it being an exclusive thing).

One problem with that while it may be cheaper for the consumer in the long run, it probably creates more costs up-front, as you have to arrange with producers to come up with the products, which would require development time and money. (I know that many "generic" brands are made by the major food companies, but products might not necessarily be identical... in other words, they probably won't just take "Post raison brand" cereal and stick it in a "mamdani-mart Raison bran" box without some small modification to the recipe.)

 

[Darat]

If it is also to try and promote healthier eating habits they need to consider having "meal kits" so everything someone needs to make a healthy meal without having to rely on pantry ingredients or other stored goods and make sure the meals can be prepared with limited cooking facilities. That way you can help make healthier food be almost as convenient as instant meals.

 

[rdwight]

The city run grocery stores just seem like a silly idea to me. Margins are already small, the savings to the overall community will be negligible etc.

Not sure how grocery stores have gotten a bad rap. Its an incredible service at a low price to consumers. I have access to any kind of food imaginable, fresh and in season, for what amounts to 10$ a month in profit for the business.

 

[Darat]

The city run grocery stores just seem like a silly idea to me. Margins are already small, the savings to the overall community will be negligible etc.

Not sure how grocery stores have gotten a bad rap. Its an incredible service at a low price to consumers. I have access to any kind of food imaginable, fresh and in season, for what amounts to 10$ a month in profit for the business.

I thought these were to be put in "food deserts" locations as much as about cost of goods in them?

 

[mumblethrax]

The reason i brought it up earlier in the thread is that mamdani is talking about a rent freeze. In other words, taking something that has been a problem for a while and making it worse. (In other words not even allowing an increase to cover basic maintenance costs)

The permissible rent increases set by the RGB are in no way earmarked for maintenance costs.

The 2019 HSTPA is far more relevant to the financial stability of heavily rent stabilized buildings than a rent freeze. There have been several of these in the past, and they're basically immaterial to the long-term solvency of such buildings.

 

[Solitaire]

Also, it's about the visibility of rising prices due to the inflation imperative of DeKeynesian economics that most governments adopted in the 1960's. For example, at a glance I thought I saw my favorite brand of frozen pasta had a price of $5.99 which it had five or six years ago, then I notice the one in front of the five...

Anyway, the more I think about it the more possible it becomes. Remove credit cards, no sales tax for government stores, in house brands bulk buying with no advertising, branding, fees, and so on.

 

[theprestige]

The city run grocery stores just seem like a silly idea to me. Margins are already small, the savings to the overall community will be negligible etc.

Not sure how grocery stores have gotten a bad rap. Its an incredible service at a low price to consumers. I have access to any kind of food imaginable, fresh and in season, for what amounts to 10$ a month in profit for the business.

I thought these were to be put in "food deserts" locations as much as about cost of goods in them?

Yeah, people in this thread need to figure out what problem they're trying to solve here. The metrics for judging the success of a social safety net program are very different from the metrics for judging the success of a breakeven business proposition.

If the problem is that food deserts exist because grocery stores can't be profitable in a particular neighborhood, then we shouldn't expect Mamdani-marts to be profitable either. Nor should we consider it a failure when they're not. I don't expect a homeless shelter to be profitable. I don't expect a food bank or a drug rehab program to be profitable. I just expect them to actually help the people that need the help. And if it is operating with public funds, I expect it to be run with the transparency and oversight necessary to prevent fraud and waste. It's very easy to make money disappear, when you're throwing it at an unprofitable social program without paying attention to how it's actually being spent.

Now, if Mamdani were saying that the city will operate grocery stores at a profit, in unprofitable neighborhoods, I'd cry foul. Especially if his plan is to buy at wholesale and sell at 30% below retail. But he's not saying that. So I don't judge his proposal on that basis, and neither should anyone else.

 

[theprestige]

By the same token, I don't have a lot of patience for people arguing that a Mamdani-mart can totally be profitable (or at least breakeven) in an allegedly "unprofitable" neighborhood, by sourcing ugly vegetables and past-due canned goods, buying from hypothetical 30% cheaper wholesalers, relying on a volunteer workforce, etc. If there was money to be made in that niche, someone would be in that niche making that money already.

Also, the "ugly vegetables and past due canned goods" is a red herring anyway. Mamdani has been very clear that one thing he wants to do with these marts is provide fresh vegetables and protein, at 30% below retail. That's a lot of ugly tomatoes and discarded pork chops.

 

[Helen]

You cannot solve several problems at once? Why? Is there a rule in the constitution that forbids it, perhaps?

 

[plague311]

Can't wait.

Link

It's almost like Mamdani is trying to help birth rates by pushing to provide childcare. This might shock you, but educated people tend to plan their lives better than...the right and they generally don't believe in the sky daddy. That's part of being educated. See, if they can't afford to have children they make the decision to not have children. They might focus on their jobs, or they might see children for the burden they are and just not want any. Frankly, we don't need anymore people on this planet. Get rid of half of them and it would be a better place all around.

On the flip side of that the folk on the right feel it's an obligation to have children. Their overbearing sky daddy tells them to pop out kids and they do. That's why red states are welfare states. Because every trailer park is full of 2 teethed morons breeding ad nauseum despite their financial situations. I don't think this is the flex you think it is.

 

[plague311]

It's called skepticism, a quality that seems to be in short supply among DSA types.

Pffhahaha skepticism is all about bitching before the base plan comes out? I had no idea. Thank you Brainster. I learned something new today about how you approach skepticism.

The city run grocery stores just seem like a silly idea to me. Margins are already small, the savings to the overall community will be negligible etc.

Not sure how grocery stores have gotten a bad rap. Its an incredible service at a low price to consumers. I have access to any kind of food imaginable, fresh and in season, for what amounts to 10$ a month in profit for the business.

You think your grocery store only makes $10/mth profit off of you? That's adorable. How much do you spend? I don't know where you live but that's assuredly not the case here.

I mean . . .

Immigrant-led business group votes to sue NYC over Mamdani’s taxpayer-funded grocery stores, alleging unfair competition

I know all about it. I've read the news. Did you just not comprehend my post? My point is, you Trausti, don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ about immigrant grocers. You couldn't give one rancid ◊◊◊◊ about how immigrant grocers are doing in New York but because you hate Mamdani you're now bringing up these grocers like that's your main concern. As I said, known racists are now joining sides with immigrant grocers against Mamdani. He's unifying people.

 

[ahhell]

I'm not arguing that rent stabilization is a good policy, I'm saying it isn't his policy. It predates him, and it will survive him. The mayor can't actually do anything about it.

I don't disagree but he talks and acts like he supports it, so it is his policy even if he didn't invent it.

 

[rdwight]

You think your grocery store only makes $10/mth profit off of you? That's adorable. How much do you spend? I don't know where you live but that's assuredly not the case here.

Its just math. They run at 1-3% margin. I probably spend in the 12k range a year. But im frugal, and have 15+ supermarkets within 10 mins of me, so im on the low end of that band, if not below it. If most people drop somewhere in the middle, would you find $20 a month to be unreasonable for the service provided?

More on point to the thread, it would be monumental to yield the $1000 per family yearly he projects. But more likely most to all of that difference will be absorbed by the city. So the limit to how much or how many people are helped will be dictated by how much budget is dedicated towards this.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The city run grocery stores just seem like a silly idea to me. Margins are already small, the savings to the overall community will be negligible etc.

Not sure how grocery stores have gotten a bad rap. Its an incredible service at a low price to consumers. I have access to any kind of food imaginable, fresh and in season, for what amounts to 10$ a month in profit for the business.

It is because they are simply not in certain neighborhoods. These are called food deserts and you have to make do with what you can get at the bodega.

Of course if it is not profitable to get people food it the only moral solution in capitalism is to let them starve.

 

[plague311]

Its just math. They run at 1-3% margin. I probably spend in the 12k range a year. But im frugal, and have 15+ supermarkets within 10 mins of me, so im on the low end of that band, if not below it. If most people drop somewhere in the middle, would you find $20 a month to be unreasonable for the service provided?

You spend $1,000\mth at the supermarket? Jesus Christ. I just fed 5 adults (my parents and son were staying with us) for a month on less than that.

They run at a 1-3% profit margin overall, but I don't think that's specific to just you.

More on point to the thread, it would be monumental to yield the $1000 per family yearly he projects. But more likely most to all of that difference will be absorbed by the city. So the limit to how much or how many people are helped will be dictated by how much budget is dedicated towards this.

Hopefully it's a decent budget, but I don't think it will require as much as people are implying it will. There are plenty of ways to cut down prices when your goal isn't profit but sustainability.

 

[theprestige]

You cannot solve several problems at once? Why? Is there a rule in the constitution that forbids it, perhaps?

What problems do you think Mamdani has set out to solve with this program?

 

[Helen]

The problems he says he wants to solve?

 

[theprestige]

The problems he says he wants to solve?

Yes, that is indeed the question I'm expecting you to answer.

 

[Helen]

Yes, that is indeed the question I'm expecting you to answer.

Why? I just asked if you can't solve several problems at once?

 

[theprestige]

Why? I just asked if you can't solve several problems at once?

It depends on the problems. I'm not interested in vague generalizations. If you believe Mamdani's program will solve multiple problems at once, then it makes sense that you would first know what problems he's actually trying to solve with this program. But you don't seem to know that, so whatever vague line of questioning you have in mind is entirely moot.

Get back to me when you can say, "from what I can tell, Mamdani's program is trying to solve problems A, B, C, ... , and the way he describes it I think the program could well succeed in solving those multiple problems at once."