Would you try it, if you thought you could?

Temporal Renegade

Last of the Time Lords
Temporal Renegade
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
1,890
Just a thought, brought about by too much coffee, and not enough sleep:

If you suddenly thought that you just might have some sort of 'special power', would you try for the prize, even though you've been a long-time skeptic? For example, if you've guessed who was calling you on the phone nine times out of ten, or 'sensed' that someone was behind you, etc?

Or, would you just chalk it up to intuition & guesswork, and not even think about it?

(If this seems like a ramble, please forgive me, as I've been up for almost 36 hours!)
 
I have been

Thinking about sending in an application myself.

Randi's weekly commentary about the Gas-Saver thingy nudged me towards trying to claim the million, showing that it WORKS!

I'm in the process right now of compiling extensive and supportable data, and recruiting expert witnesses to sign some notarized affidavits (if required by the next Challenge administrator).

The double-blind part is tricky, since I need an identical vehicle that doesn't have the device attached to the engine, and I'll need to drive that one part of the time, while not knowing which car is which! #)*^(G#$@Y

I cannot offer the official application as yet, since there is the minor issue of how to define the claim and how to set up a preliminary test protocol.

Essentially, what it boils down to is this:

I wish to show easily observable evidence of a consumer device that 'magically' and without any known scientific reason or explainable mechanical principle, allows my ordinary new 2006 Huyundai Sonata V6 GLS to get better gas mileage than it obtained prior to the installation of this device.


Any advice from the usual gang of numbskulls here is appreciated.
 
Suggest before you apply you do some tests yourself. See how much this device does save you. If it saves you nothing you have saved yourself heaps of embarrassment.
 
The easy thing to do is to get someone to install (or not install) the device then drive around and note your mileage. Ideally you could obtain two devices and have your helper destroy the innards on one so that you can't tell which is which even if you have to look at the engine.

Then after a few weeks have the helper install the other (dummy or real) device.

Have the helper flip a coin to decide which device to install. Do ten trials. If you want the test to be double blind, don't talk to your helper until the test is over. You could leave notes of a predetermined nature (dates, times, no other info.)

For the JREF tests you are probably going to need to pay someone (an independent test lab approved by JREF) to do the same test for you. The drivers have to be somebody the JREF can trust not to peek into the devices and see if they are dummies.
 
Temporal Renegade said:
Just a thought, brought about by too much coffee, and not enough sleep:

If you suddenly thought that you just might have some sort of 'special power', would you try for the prize, even though you've been a long-time skeptic? For example, if you've guessed who was calling you on the phone nine times out of ten, or 'sensed' that someone was behind you, etc?

Or, would you just chalk it up to intuition & guesswork, and not even think about it?

(If this seems like a ramble, please forgive me, as I've been up for almost 36 hours!)
Click to expand...
I think that might be the only problem for a lot of people is knowing we all have something but how do you proove it. I prefer to use gifts, powers seem to comic book. Hey next time you stay up for this long wanna use a instant messenger and ramble on and continuely thinking and moving on. I have found that when up for a good amount of time and having to post it seems it slows down somethinking cause when someone stays up some need to just work on something real strong while the thought is still fresh. When I post i have to wait for a response slows it down to me. PM me if you wanna try it.
 
If I could prove to myself that I had some sort of special gift, then I would. Hey, its a million bucks! I can curb my skepticism for a bit for a million bucks.
 
webfusion said:
(snippage)
Essentially, what it boils down to is this:

I wish to show easily observable evidence of a consumer device that 'magically' and without any known scientific reason or explainable mechanical principle, allows my ordinary new 2006 Huyundai Sonata V6 GLS to get better gas mileage than it obtained prior to the installation of this device.

Any advice from the usual gang of numbskulls here is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Well, one obvious way would be to do an EPA "driving cycle" on a dyno or a track. Use several different drivers.
Ideally, the drivers should not know what is being tested.
Or even distract them by allowing them to think they're being measured to see how accurately they can follow the profile. That only requires one car.

Incidentally, if the car really is new, there is some slight decrease in friction in the first thousand miles or so, as the engine parts wear together.
 
Sure, I'd try the challenge. If I found I could do something that seemed paranormal, I'd first want to test it myself in all the ways I could think of, to understand what was happening. If it still seemed paranormal, it would either be because I'd overlooked some obscure normal explanation, or it was paranormal.

Taking, or even just applying for, the JREF challenge would be a positive step either way, by enlisting others more experienced than me, to help finally discover the explanation, or making me a million richer. The abuse and ridicule seems to be reserved for those who are trying to preserve their self-delusion, and not for those who are earnestly seeking all possible normal explanations.
 
I'm not sure why you would need to double blind the car driving experiment. Is it because the driver might drive differently (burn more or less gass) if he knew?
 
Temporal Renegade said:
Just a thought, brought about by too much coffee, and not enough sleep:

If you suddenly thought that you just might have some sort of 'special power', would you try for the prize, even though you've been a long-time skeptic? For example, if you've guessed who was calling you on the phone nine times out of ten, or 'sensed' that someone was behind you, etc?

Or, would you just chalk it up to intuition & guesswork, and not even think about it?

(If this seems like a ramble, please forgive me, as I've been up for almost 36 hours!)
Click to expand...

Being a skeptic, I would have to do a significant amount of self testing, in order to convince myself that something that deserved further study was, indeed, going on. I would then post here describing my experience and asking the forum regulars for advice on more self testing, looking for fresh minds to point out methodology errors I may have missed in my own self designed tests, and recommend different tests I could try. If, after that round of self testing, I still believed I was able to demonstrate an ability that did not have a mundane explanation, I would definitely apply for the challenge.

To use your analogy, if I predicted correctly the identity of 9 of the next 10 people who called me on the telephone, I would have to repeat that feat, at a similar level of accuracy, several times before I even suspected that something odd was going on.
 
Proceeding to compile data & obtaining affidavits...

BTW, the item in question is this:
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11268765/Super_Tech_Fuel_Saver.html


It was mentioned in this Commentary:
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html#i3
Jan. 6th, 2006
randi says --
"I continue to be puzzled at why these folks don’t just demonstrate their invention for the JREF and walk away with our million-dollar prize!"

Since I am not the inventor or the distributor making any claims of its' effectiveness, I was wondering if I could be eligible for the prize as well just by being an end-user who showed results? -- if we take the example of the GSIC, then it should be clear that I am free to pursue this vigorously, scientifically and properly, within the parameters of the Challenge.

Of course, since there is no Challenge Administrator currently, I'm not sure how to proceed.
 
thatguywhojuggles said:
I'm not sure why you would need to double blind the car driving experiment. Is it because the driver might drive differently (burn more or less gass) if he knew?
Click to expand...

Virtually any device claimed to improve mileage will do so if the driver knows about it and believes it might work. They want it to work, so they are easy on the gas.
 
webfusion said:
BTW, the item in question is this:
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11268765/Super_Tech_Fuel_Saver.html


It was mentioned in this Commentary:
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html#i3
Jan. 6th, 2006
randi says --
"I continue to be puzzled at why these folks don’t just demonstrate their invention for the JREF and walk away with our million-dollar prize!"

Since I am not the inventor or the distributor making any claims of its' effectiveness, I was wondering if I could be eligible for the prize as well just by being an end-user who showed results? -- if we take the example of the GSIC, then it should be clear that I am free to pursue this vigorously, scientifically and properly, within the parameters of the Challenge.

Of course, since there is no Challenge Administrator currently, I'm not sure how to proceed.
Click to expand...


The JREF allowed something similar with audio chip thing. I can't remember the name, but the thread went on and on and the claiment made excuse after excuse for why he couldn't do the test. Anyhow, the JREF was willing to give him a million dollars if he could hear the difference in CDs treated with someone else's thingamabob.
 
It would depend on the power I had discovered.
If, for example, I discovered I could reliably predict winning lottery numbers, I would not reveal that power for any fiddling little million dollars. I'd go for the big bucks.
On the other hand, I f I could dowse reliably, I'd take the challange. Winning would be the best possible advertising.
If it were something trivial but paranormal (like being able to guess a persons birthday from their personality), I think I'd take the challange to bring attention to the phenominon.
Of course, if I could kill people at a distance with the power of my mind, I wouldn't take the challange. First, since it would involve danger to humans it would not be allowed, and second, rude questions about how I know I can do this might be asked.

Robert Klaus
 
webfusion said:
Thinking about sending in an application myself.

Randi's weekly commentary about the Gas-Saver thingy nudged me towards trying to claim the million, showing that it WORKS!

I'm in the process right now of compiling extensive and supportable data, and recruiting expert witnesses to sign some notarized affidavits (if required by the next Challenge administrator).

The double-blind part is tricky, since I need an identical vehicle that doesn't have the device attached to the engine, and I'll need to drive that one part of the time, while not knowing which car is which! #)*^(G#$@Y

I cannot offer the official application as yet, since there is the minor issue of how to define the claim and how to set up a preliminary test protocol.

Essentially, what it boils down to is this:

I wish to show easily observable evidence of a consumer device that 'magically' and without any known scientific reason or explainable mechanical principle, allows my ordinary new 2006 Huyundai Sonata V6 GLS to get better gas mileage than it obtained prior to the installation of this device.


Any advice from the usual gang of numbskulls here is appreciated.
Click to expand...


Well, since the sellers claim a 70% reduction in emissions, it should be very easy to test, and no actual driving tests need be done.
 
But I would not even bother with this device. It is highly unlikely to offer any benefit to the consumer. You have read what James Randi says about the device, well he says it all.
 
The ad you linked says the unit works by emitting infrared radiation (heat). And yet it takes no batteries. I would say that IF it has a power source it would have to be its own jostling within the fuel tank moving an internal magnet in a coil or something.
Even if it was powered this way, how is a warmer gas tank gonna help?
It simply does not and cannot work. The diode and ceramic are there for no reason. I seriously doubt it even generates its own power, because if warmer gas burned more efficiently, the effect of this little widget compared to the hot cylinder head is so tiny you'd never be able to detect it.
the gas is injected into the intake manifold which is rather warm. Hot to the touch, in fact. So any "infrared radiation" this thing emits wouldn't even make it through the multiple feet of fuel line, nice warm fuel pumps, injectors and FIRE in the cylinder during the compression phase (which heats it up LOTS too).

So I'm gonna go out on a limb and call it mumbo-jumbo based on the pseudoscientific mention of infrared as if it was some amazing technological marvel.
The ad is clearly designed to fool especially ignorant people.
 
Webfusion- Does using this device affect the warranty on your new vehicle?
I mean- if the fuel pump dies tomorrow, anyone who has seen this thread can say you pot a foreign body in your fuel system.

What I'm saying is - don't show this to the dealer you got the vehicle from.
 
webfusion said:
The double-blind part is tricky, since I need an identical vehicle that doesn't have the device attached to the engine, and I'll need to drive that one part of the time, while not knowing which car is which! #)*^(G#$@Y
Click to expand...
I don't think you could build a good test protocol around real-world driving; there are just too many variables involved. Your gas mileage is naturally going to vary depending on the driving conditions, so you'd have to burn dozens and dozens of tanks of gas to get useful statistics.

What you want to do is minimize the number of variables. Just get some lawnmower motors, and see how long they run on a cup of gas with/without the device.
Since I am not the inventor or the distributor making any claims of its' effectiveness, I was wondering if I could be eligible for the prize as well just by being an end-user who showed results?
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. You just have to demonstrate something paranormal; you don't need to be the root cause.

But before you invest a lot of money in this, you might want to consider the reason why the inventor hasn't applied for the prize himself. I mean, Randi impugned his honor on a public website, so you'd think that he'd be eager to make Randi eat crow.
 
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