Would you try it, if you thought you could?

Temporal Renegade said:
Just a thought, brought about by too much coffee, and not enough sleep:

If you suddenly thought that you just might have some sort of 'special power', would you try for the prize, even though you've been a long-time skeptic? For example, if you've guessed who was calling you on the phone nine times out of ten, or 'sensed' that someone was behind you, etc?
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Being a skeptic, I would especially want to do it.
 
Temporal Renegade said:
If you suddenly thought that you just might have some sort of 'special power', would you try for the prize, even though you've been a long-time skeptic? For example, if you've guessed who was calling you on the phone nine times out of ten, or 'sensed' that someone was behind you, etc?

Or, would you just chalk it up to intuition & guesswork, and not even think about it?
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It would seem to make more sense IMO that when wanting to test the scientific validity of something to go through the standard channels of Science rather than a challenge by skeptical organizations.
 
T'ai Chi said:
It would seem to make more sense IMO that when wanting to test the scientific validity of something to go through the standard channels of Science rather than a challenge by skeptical organizations.
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That's a good point...I am really torn about it, though. My gut feeling is that if I thought I could do (for instance) the remote viewing thing, I would want to do the challenge thing, just because of its notoriety.

But, of course, I would not want to do the challenge until I had convinced myself that I was not merely fooling myself, and it seems to me that the best way to do that would be to subject myself to the protocols of the experimental laboratory and the critiques of my peers. Fortunately, I and some of my close colleagues have actually run subjects in parapsychology tests, so we are quite familiar with the parapsychology and psychology literatures, have some experience designing and running the experiments, and could very easily set up the appropriate tests to confirm or disconfirm this newfound ability.

I suppose the two are not mutually incompatible. The data collected in order to convince myself could be written up and submitted for publication, while (assuming I am convinced) I go on to take the challenge.

Two possibilities leap to mind--the JREF finds something I missed, and I blushingly add a post-script to the paper (which of course is accepted for publication anyway, as a cautionary tale), or I win the challenge, and the increased attention for the subsequent paper starts a flurry of activity in the standard channels of science. Either way, I don't think the challenge detracts from the process. But then, I started this off admitting that my gut is biased toward taking the challenge... :D
 
To the OP: No, I wouldn't try it. To do so not believing in the paranormal would be an attempt to defraud, and that would not be honorable.
 
Complexity said:
To the OP: No, I wouldn't try it. To do so not believing in the paranormal would be an attempt to defraud, and that would not be honorable.
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I guess I read the OP differently--I assumed that, for some reason, I was beginning to accumulate evidence that I actually could perform [dowsing, remote viewing, whatever], and it got to the point where the evidence was enough to begin to convince me. Not that I had figured out a way to cheat.

Believing in it (or not) does not, for me enter into it--it is a matter of following the evidence.
 
Complexity said:
To the OP: No, I wouldn't try it. To do so not believing in the paranormal would be an attempt to defraud, and that would not be honorable.
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My understanding about reality is that it works whether you believe in it or not. If I found clear evidence of the paranormal, I don't think it would matter much whether or not I personally was convinced by the evidence.

The history of science is littered with people who reported surprising findings that they themselves didn't necessarily believe or take seriously, but that other people did. If I stumbled upon something that I thought Randi would be interested in investigating, of course I'd apply. It's a win-win situation. Either he teaches me something, or I teach him something.

The key thing, of course, is I would want a lot of evidence before I dragged him out of his hospital bed. Merely guessing who was on the phone nine times out of ten probably wouldn't do it.
 
If I suddenly found I could fly unaided, I'd go for the million right away. I even have an idea for a test protocol.
 
I'm afraid that my post has caused some confusion.

The JREF challenge has been issued to elicit and test claims of the paranormal.

If something occurs that I don't understand or don't expect, I would want it to be studied scientifically. It would not be paranormal or supernatural, but my understanding of nature could be (and certainly is) deficient.

My first reaction would be to question myself, my sanity, and my ability to make sense out of what I am experiencing.

My next reaction would be to question my understanding of the world and my understanding of science.

If, at any time, I found myself believing myself to be competent to have an opinion on the unusual phenonenon and believing that it contradicts my scientific understanding of the world, I would be open to involvement in its scientific investigation.

If the evidence persuaded me that it is real, I would have to alter my model of the world, and I would not rest until I gained some understanding of how it fits into the rest of nature.

At no time would I regard it as being supernatural (there being no such thing).

Since I do not, and would not, believe in the supernatural or paranormal, I feel that it would be dishonorable for me to apply for the JREF challenge, even though, by the rules of the challenge, I would be fully entitled to do so and, possibly, claim the million dollars.

I would have been acting as a scientist, a skeptic, and a rational person, attempting to make sense out of something that didn't fit my model of the world. Unlike a woo, I would seek a deeper understanding of nature rather than posit a supernatural.
 
Complexity said:
My first reaction would be to question myself, my sanity, and my ability to make sense out of what I am experiencing.
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It is somewhat questionable that that would accomplish anything.

For example, if you are not insane and you have ability to make sense out of what you are experiencing, you wouldn't need to question yourself in the first place.

If, however, you are insane and unable to make sense out of what you are experiencing, what would questioning yourself (hypothetically insane and unable, remember) accomplish exactly?
 
Complexity said:
I'm afraid that my post has caused some confusion.

The JREF challenge has been issued to elicit and test claims of the paranormal.

If something occurs that I don't understand or don't expect, I would want it to be studied scientifically. It would not be paranormal or supernatural, but my understanding of nature could be (and certainly is) deficient.

My first reaction would be to question myself, my sanity, and my ability to make sense out of what I am experiencing.

My next reaction would be to question my understanding of the world and my understanding of science.

If, at any time, I found myself believing myself to be competent to have an opinion on the unusual phenonenon and believing that it contradicts my scientific understanding of the world, I would be open to involvement in its scientific investigation.

If the evidence persuaded me that it is real, I would have to alter my model of the world, and I would not rest until I gained some understanding of how it fits into the rest of nature.

At no time would I regard it as being supernatural (there being no such thing).

Since I do not, and would not, believe in the supernatural or paranormal, I feel that it would be dishonorable for me to apply for the JREF challenge, even though, by the rules of the challenge, I would be fully entitled to do so and, possibly, claim the million dollars.

I would have been acting as a scientist, a skeptic, and a rational person, attempting to make sense out of something that didn't fit my model of the world. Unlike a woo, I would seek a deeper understanding of nature rather than posit a supernatural.
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Just imagine for a moment, that one day, you trip on stair downwards, but instead of breaking you're neck, you're fall stops with you floating a meter above the ground.
After recovering from surprise, you think about how to get done and immiediately gently land. You realize you lost something upstairs, but before you can raise a foot, you float upstairs.
After a few days of testing(leaving every day your house through a thid floor window, jumping of skyscrapers, flying so high you get dizzy from thin air), you are convinced, that you can fly, by simply thinking about it.

Would you apply for the million?


I certainly would, it's paranormal.

Carn
 
T'ai Chi said:
It would seem to make more sense IMO that when wanting to test the scientific validity of something to go through the standard channels of Science rather than a challenge by skeptical organizations.
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That wasn't the issue. Temporal Renegade didn't say anything about being tested scientifically. TR asked if people - skeptics in particular - would go for the million bucks if they thought they had paranormal powers.

What do you think of the JREF Challenge? Is it worthless? Useful?
 
Personally, if I discovered I had an easily tested paranormal power, I'd apply so fast that it'd almost be a paranormal event in itself :D

From watching discussions with actual applicants, it is clear that I'd get treated with respect as long as I didn't start waffling randomly and concentrated on getting a protocol sorted it.

After winning, I'd then use my amazing psychic powers to determine whether homeopaths and all the other quacks truly believe in the crap they peddle ;)
 
If I had a special talent, a paranormal power that I was 100% sure was genuine and would work every single time, and knowing that a million dollars is there, just for the taking, why I'd do the only sensible thing a man could do and send in endless emails to the forum explaining that JREF is unfair, that the test is biased, that they won't let me win anyway, that they'll rig the protocol, that I'm going to apply Real Soon Now (but I would never actually apply, of course), I'd resist understanding all the well-meaning explanations of protocol setting and so forth that I'd be bound to get, claiming that no matter how much sense they make, they are just plain wrong, biased, stupid and so forth, and when the million dollars is clearly within my grasp, why I'd immediately begin to curse and defame everyone associated with the JREF and so get banned and then go and complain and whine all over the Internet about how unfair everyone is.

But that's just me. Most people aren't like that.
 
Spektator said:
If I had a special talent, a paranormal power that I was 100% sure was genuine and would work every single time, and knowing that a million dollars is there, just for the taking, why I'd do the only sensible thing a man could do and send in endless emails to the forum explaining that JREF is unfair, that the test is biased, that they won't let me win anyway, that they'll rig the protocol, that I'm going to apply Real Soon Now (but I would never actually apply, of course), I'd resist understanding all the well-meaning explanations of protocol setting and so forth that I'd be bound to get, claiming that no matter how much sense they make, they are just plain wrong, biased, stupid and so forth, and when the million dollars is clearly within my grasp, why I'd immediately begin to curse and defame everyone associated with the JREF and so get banned and then go and complain and whine all over the Internet about how unfair everyone is.

But that's just me. Most people aren't like that.
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Classic :clap:
 
Carn said:
Just imagine for a moment, that one day, you trip on stair downwards, but instead of breaking you're neck, you're fall stops with you floating a meter above the ground.
After recovering from surprise, you think about how to get done and immiediately gently land. You realize you lost something upstairs, but before you can raise a foot, you float upstairs.
After a few days of testing(leaving every day your house through a thid floor window, jumping of skyscrapers, flying so high you get dizzy from thin air), you are convinced, that you can fly, by simply thinking about it.

Would you apply for the million?


I certainly would, it's paranormal.

Carn
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I would start looking for Fenchurch, because it would be obvious I'd become Arthur Dent.
 
Of course I would, the worst that could happen is not to win the million, so I wouldnt loose anything....
 
It doesn't even have to work everytime, it just has to be statistically different from chance...I always get angry at those people who claim that they have ESP but it's not reliable enough to test. Even ESP that only works .1% of the time can be measured, you just need to do a whole lot of tests.
 
While that's true, Randi doesn't have the resources to provide observers for extensive testing. Thus, at least in the past, they have not beetn willing to agree to any protocol that allows for that.
 
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