Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

[Reformed Offlian]

Of course they managed to explain it.

Of course Nixon gave Buzz a buzz whilst he was prancing around collecting Moon rocks. Shee-eesh!

Is this the sort of "intellectual debate" you are unafraid of?

 

[Foster Zygote]

All the way back to WW2

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My Uncle Carl wore the top system, the original "walkie talkie", all over Korea. A weak battery saved his life once. A 2LT came by putting together a squad to do some recon. My uncle checked his battery and said he needed a minute to change it out for one with a full charge. The 2LT said there wasn't time, and selected another radio operator. They never saw any of those guys again.

 

[Darat]

Nixon absolutely did make a phone call to the moon.

Do you have some kind of mental block that makes you imagine a phone call is not real if there's a radio link involved? Do you think mobile phone calls are not phone calls?
What is your problem here?

W D Clinger answered that with his comments about IQ.

 

[JayUtah]

That last one was the next project for the Grumman design team that built the LM. It remained one of the world's most formidable fighter aircraft for thirty years.

The period in the middle of the 20th century is known as the Golden Age of aerospace. It is not at all surprising that a successful crewed mission to the Moon came out of this.

There's one argument that points to the sheer scale of the Apollo project and rightly asks how such an important secret could be kept successfully by so many people for so many years, or alternatively how so many people could be so effectively fooled for so long into thinking they weren't really doing their jobs. There's another argument altogether that asks how named individuals like Maxime Faget and Tom Kelly could have acted in such a scenario.

The people who were tapped out to build Apollo were chosen because they were already at the top of their game and would go on to stay at the top. Tom Kelly was legendary, and the engineering team he assembled at Grumman was separately legendary. Of course someone like @Vixen who hasn't worked in or studied this field won't know any of these names or reputations. But well-informed people do.

Was Tom Kelly ignorant of what it would take to build a lunar lander? Was his team? Was Kelly fooled by a smarter person in the field (of which there were probably only a dozen such examples)? Was Kelly convinced to risk a successful, illustrious career at the top of his field by participating in a hoax? Would his team have known?

"But Jay, you're just hero-worshiping," has been the answer so far. No, I'm giving demonstrably accomplished people their due respect and rightly questioning the ignoramuses who come along and say he's some kind of poser or fraud, providing no information for it than their own ignorance and incredulity. Yes, I believe such misinformaton should be challenged, and a skeptics forum is an ideal place to do it.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

I'm sure that I'm not the first person to notice that this is how you write when you're frustrated about painting yourself into a corner.

That and starting to throw around accusations of trolling or snidey not-quite-personal-attacks (easily visible in certain links out from this thread).

 

[Jack by the hedge]

We were discussing debunking and Nixon ringing up the astronauts on the Moon hardly qualifies as a debunk. Quite the opposite.

So why did you bring it up in the first place?

What do you mean by "quite the opposite"? Please try to be specific, because it sounds as if you wish to imply it makes Apollo less likely to be authentic. Explain your reasoning.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You need to know you are now in the shallow end of the CT pool with the flat-earthers.

I found a new conspiracy theory!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If you are so bought in to the premise then of course you will believe anything that supports it no matter how wild, hilarious and absurd. This is why a debate is set up so that one can step back and examine all of the things we believe are true.

What is it about the Nixon phone call to Tranquility Base that you think was wild, hilarious or absurd? Kindly explain what you mean as clearly as you are able, because it sounds like a big, hollow nothing so far.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Explain how 'Nixon rang up the guys on the Moon surface' proves that the guys were on the Moon surface or how it makes the claim stronger.

First you need to show us where anyone claimed that as a proof. Again, you brought up the POTUS call as something you thought was technically impossible. Now you're dishonestly claiming that you were simply addressing a claim made by others.

 

[threadworm]

I actually said it was explained away by the radio waves route in my post. The reason law courts operate on a fact-finding basis is because they want the facts not the suppositions, rationalisations, speculations and 'alternative explanations'. They /we here want to know what did happen and what did not, not 'how it might have happened' or it is possible for 'x,y and z to have happened'. That doesn't settle the issue.

You have supplied no facts. You have regurgitated baseless claims without questioning their veracity.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I actually said it was explained away <padding snipped>

Yes. You certainly implied they made up a story to try to explain away something that was impossible. You haven't ventured to tell us what was impossible, and you never will, no matter how hard you Google, because none of it was.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I rarely bother answering hypothetical questions.

But you do love to digress into asking them when you have nothing on-topic to say.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Nixon, such an exemplar of honesty and integrity, was there to meet the guys off the helicopter, like some kind of cheeky-chappie Hughie Green or Bruce Forsyth to exchange witty repartee for the tv studios, from the three astronauts encased in a box, their cheerful shiny faces peering out from behind the glass. Just touched down from a frightfully stressful reentry into Earth without breaking up. It's amazing Nixon didn't have a couple of extra boxes, one containing a car and the other a booby prize, and asking the tv audiences at home which one he should open first.

Sorry to be flippant but we-eeeeell...

Reality check.

No, no. You're flippancy is unintentionally amusing.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Heh, somebody has a case of the moondays.

"Corporate Accounts Payable this is Vixen speaking. Just a moment."

 

[Vixen]

You really are patheticly desperate to avoid admitting you are wrong, aren't you?

My post #4192

"Artemis is not comparing like for like. For example, we have the ISS in place for refuelling and docking. We have digital technology, computer and sateliite systems a million times more advanced and developed than in 1969. The entire Houston computer servers of 1969 are equivalent to the entire technology you now have in your smart phone. Calculators were as thick as a brick. President Nixon claimed to have rung up the astronauts on the Moon direct from his White House telephone because he was too dim to realise there were no telephone wires on the Moon. Telephone all used to be by wires, remember. So a story had to be conjured up that er, his 'direct line to Apollo 11' went via bouncing around various radio stations instead. Well, it has plausible deniability."

So not wrong at all. Sorry to disappoint you. AGAIN.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The period in the middle of the 20th century is known as the Golden Age of aerospace. It is not at all surprising that a successful crewed mission to the Moon came out of this.

Just ten years separates the first flights of the Avro Lancaster in 1942, and the Avro Vulcan and Handley Page Victor in 1952.





The Victor still looks like the future.

 

[JayUtah]

Just ten years separates the first flights of the Avro Lancaster 1942, and the Avro Vulcan 1952.

And Charles Lindbergh maintained a friendship with the Apollo 11 crew for many years.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I think in the current small talk the kids tell you how Vixen destroyed us with this legendary clap back. Whatever that means. It does seem only to get used in circumstances where the overblown claim is writing cheques the feeble riposte cannot actually cash. Perhaps that makes it especially appropriate.

I think the kids would be laughing too hard about the "little tranny under the sheets" to do much else.

 

[JayUtah]

So not wrong at all. Sorry to disappoint you. AGAIN.

Your inability to understand how telephones actually work is evidence only of your inability to understand how telephones work.

No one has claimed Pres. Nixon's phone call proves the authenticity of the Moon landings. No one but you is claiming that such a call would be technologically impossible. Your fixation on Richard Nixon to the exclusion of much better evidence is getting rather sad.

 

[JayUtah]

Yes. You certainly implied they made up a story to try to explain away something that was impossible. You haven't ventured to tell us what was impossible, and you never will, no matter how hard you Google, because none of it was.

The kicker is that the MSFN design incorporated ordinary telephone lines. Apollo voice communications traveled over the existing telephone network from the ground stations to Houston.