Understanding the Liberal Mindset

[Trausti]

pure logic tells any thinking person that as power gets concentrated, corruption increases - it's unavoidable.
That's why power needs to be as distributed as possible, with checks & balances & transparency to keep the total volume of corruption small.

Agreed. And one way to do that is to limit that amount of taxpayer dollars going to government.

 

[Trausti]

the US is much deeper in debt that China.

Yes. And that's a government problem.

 

[arthwollipot]

 

[jimbob]

This isn't true at all. The Third Reich was insanely corrupt. So was Italy under Mussolini, Spain under Franco, Chile under Pinochet, Belarus under Lukachenko and now the US under Trump. Not to mention many other governments too numerous to list.

Corruption is not more prevalent under left wing governments than it is under right wing governments. The problem lays strictly with authoritarian governments that lack checks and balances against corruption.

Absolutely.

It's a problem with entrenched power with no effective checks.

 

[theprestige]

View attachment 72216

Exactly. I like good accounting.

 

[johnny karate]

Any government made up of people will have corruption; that's just what people do. Best to keep government small, with minimal tax, and out of our lives.

Supporter of the most corrupt administration in history that occupies American cities with paramilitary good squads has thoughts about corruption and small government.

 

[johnny karate]

Agreed. And one way to do that is to limit that amount of taxpayer dollars going to government.

Supporter of an administration using our tax dollars for insurrectionist slush funds and UFC fights on the White House lawn has thoughts about tax policy.

 

[steenkh]

The US has a higher average income than Denmark. We also have air conditioning. Add to that, the US subsidizes Denmark's defense and healthcare costs.

Your higher average income is due to your many rich people that are only a small percentage of the population. Denmark is not yet so lopsided-sided as the U.S.
How on earth did air conditioning come this? And I am not aware that the U.S. is giving Denmark money to support our defence, or even more ludicrous that you are spending a single cent to support Denmark's health care costs. What world are you living in?

ETA: I just realised that the world you are living in is the MAGA world. You are excused for your opinion.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This isn't true at all.

Oh? Which communist governments have NOT been full of rampant and abusive corruption?

The Third Reich was insanely corrupt. So was Italy under Mussolini, Spain under Franco, Chile under Pinochet, Belarus under Lukachenko and now the US under Trump. Not to mention many other governments too numerous to list.

Corruption is not more prevalent under left wing governments than it is under right wing governments. The problem lays strictly with authoritarian governments that lack checks and balances against corruption.

At no point whatsoever did I assert that non-communist governments cannot be corrupt. Go read it again, and give it some thought this time.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I agree with the first sentence.

But governments need to be sized accordingly with the population of their respective nation. The idea that a smaller government is better is simply not supported by the evidence. I'm in favor of reducing the size of the military and the number of police officers. But the IRS is too small and needs to have the number of enforcement officers tripled. Recent cutting of services by the DOGE has been a disaster.

Sure, sure... let's prioritize the ability to take citizen's money over keeping them safe. Makes perfect sense, who needs protection and safety anyway?

 

[acbytesla]

Oh? Which communist governments have NOT been full of rampant and abusive corruption?

And which right wing fascist governments haven't been full of rampant and abusive corruption?

My point stands. It's not about the economic system. It's about authoritarianism and the absence of checks and balances.

At no point whatsoever did I assert that non-communist governments cannot be corrupt. Go read it again, and give it some thought this time.

You think about it. What you said was all encompassing BS.

 

[acbytesla]

Sure, sure... let's prioritize the ability to take citizen's money over keeping them safe. Makes perfect sense, who needs protection and safety anyway?

Who's not safe? Just how many police officers do we need? You want people to actually make people safe? Feed them and house them. Don't put them into desperate situations.

 

[Emily's Cat]

And which right wing fascist governments haven't been full of rampant and abusive corruption?

Given that I haven't made that claim, I'm under no obligation to support your strawman.

My point stands. It's not about the economic system. It's about authoritarianism and the absence of checks and balances.

You think about it. What you said was all encompassing BS.

I said that every single country that has tried communism has ended up chock full of corruption. What is BS about that? I note that you haven't provided a single case of one that has not been full of corruption.

 

[acbytesla]

Given that I haven't made that claim, I'm under no obligation to support your strawman.

Oh bull crap. Do you even know what a strawman is? That isn't one. It's a counter point.

I said that every single country that has tried communism has ended up chock full of corruption. What is BS about that? I note that you haven't provided a single case of one that has not been full of corruption.

I know you did. But my point stands. They were all derivatives of the Soviet state. When that is your model, what would you expect?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Oh bull crap. Do you even know what a strawman is? That isn't one. It's a counter point.

It's not at all a counterpoint. I said "All of X are Y". You then proceeded to say my assertion was BS, and challenged me to prove to you that "Some W are Not Y". I didn't make any claims about W. You're attributing an argument to me that I didn't make, and then you chastise me for not defending an argument I didn't make.

I know you did. But my point stands. They were all derivatives of the Soviet state. When that is your model, what would you expect?

I will repeat: Every single country that has attempted communism has been packed to the brim with corruption.

Your opposing argument is nothing more than "no true communist"? Your point doesn't stand, your point has no legs at all.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Yes. And that's a government problem.

When the fish getting bigger you need to buy a bigger tank.
The existence of mega corporations and billionaires necessitates a Big State.

If you want less government you should want less excessive wealth - otherwise you are just a clueless libertarian

 

[acbytesla]

It's not at all a counterpoint. I said "All of X are Y". You then proceeded to say my assertion was BS, and challenged me to prove to you that "Some W are Not Y". I didn't make any claims about W. You're attributing an argument to me that I didn't make, and then you chastise me for not defending an argument I didn't make.

Seriously, can you read? I didn't assert your position was something it wasn't. That would be a strawman. I asserted your position was wrong.

I pointed out that corruption is not dependent on the economic system. I provided multiple examples of right wing governments that are also rampant with corruption. I asserted you're wong that Communism or Socialism in itself leads to corruption. This is what makes it a counterpoint.

I will repeat: Every single country that has attempted communism has been packed to the brim with corruption.

Misses the point.

Your opposing argument is nothing more than "no true communist"? Your point doesn't stand, your point has no legs at all.

Nonsense. Why is that you keep saying I'm making fallacies? Especially when you don't know what they are.

 

[dann]

Your higher average income is due to your many rich people that are only a small percentage of the population. Denmark is not yet so lopsided-sided as the U.S.
How on earth did air conditioning come this? And I am not aware that the U.S. is giving Denmark money to support our defence, or even more ludicrous that you are spending a single cent to support Denmark's health care costs. What world are you living in?

ETA: I just realised that the world you are living in is the MAGA world. You are excused for your opinion.

Maybe Trausti can be excused for thinking that the USA pays for Denmark's defense, but he can't be forgiven for spreading Trump's lies without fact-checking them. At this point, even hard-core MAGAts have had ten years to acknowledge that Trump lies more than most people – and even lies more than most politicians.

 

[Planigale]

Given that I haven't made that claim, I'm under no obligation to support your strawman.

I said that every single country that has tried communism has ended up
chock full of corruption . What is BS about that? I note that you haven't provided a single case of one that has not been full of corruption.

Could you support that claim with evidence? Not just propaganda claims from anti-communist agencies.

Not sure how many countries are communist, but Cuba doesn't appear the most corrupt, and North Korea does even appear.

Corruption Rank by Country

The Corruption Perceptions Index Rank (CPI Ranking) is published annually by Transparency International, a non-governmental organisation. A country or territory's rank indicates its position relative to the other countries and territories in the index.

tradingeconomics.com

ETA I was surprised that denmark was top the corruption list.

 

[acbytesla]

Could you support that claim with evidence? Not just propaganda claims from anti-communist agencies.

Not sure how many countries are communist, but Cuba doesn't appear the most corrupt, and North Korea does even appear.

Corruption Rank by Country

The Corruption Perceptions Index Rank (CPI Ranking) is published annually by Transparency International, a non-governmental organisation. A country or territory's rank indicates its position relative to the other countries and territories in the index.

tradingeconomics.com

ETA I was surprised that denmark was top the corruption list.

Of whose list? What criteria did they use? Are they honest?