Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Rusty Tyler]

Thank you for that Rusty, I appreciate your answer.

My pleasure. Thanks again for asking.

I'm sure others will point out that most religious people were born into their religion.

I agree. We tend to trust those who cared for us.

But my interest lies here: Is there any part of your experience you can use to convince those of us who don't believe?

I don't expect anyone to believe me. Especially not here.

If I read you right, you probably didn't know the Bible forwards and backwards as an eight year old

Correct.

it sounds like you delved deeply into it only after the fact. And Jesus came to you only after a good deal of social and cultural indoctrination.

Yes, but it was a complete surprise. I thought I was already approved. I found out that day that I was really like all those other kids that I thought needed God, when I in fact did not have God myself.

So I'm wondering how Noah's Ark claims and miracle healing and Bible quotes are meant to be convincing to those of us who either had no indoctrination, or deliberately worked our way out of indoctrination. How do you envision your approach being fruitful?

I have no hope of convincing any of you. Nothing about my approach will be fruitful by human effort.
Only God can change a heart. If my words lead to a divine encounter, over which I have no control, that's the only thing that works.

The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus with evil plans for the church, but Jesus stopped him in his tracks. (Acts 9)

 

[Darat]

They probably looked ok to first/second century middle eastern Jews when the fables were written. People were
rather gullible then when it came to religion. Miracles and messiahs were a dime a dozen. Much research over two millennia has mase them look like bungling idiots, as recognized and admitted even by believers such as yourself.

Be fair it took until the 1970s before we properly started examining the claims of the supernatural. And even after we learnt there was nothing to it there are still people who believe in that crap.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

So I'm wondering how Noah's Ark claims and miracle healing and Bible quotes are meant to be convincing to those of us who either had no indoctrination, or deliberately worked our way out of indoctrination.

These are more than just book-read stories to me. I have been living it.
I shared some of my testimonies earlier. Divine encounters, healings, visions, etc.
No one believed a word of it, of course. I don't have the required peer-reviewed scientific paper s to prove anything.
I person's word is worthless around here.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

How many threads have you started with the blatantly obvious purpose of trying to convince others that there is merit to your religious belief?

There is no merit to my religious beliefs. Take it or leave it.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

... your cause is none the less blindingly apparent.

LOL
Well... God lives in unapproachable light.
Maybe I'm onto something here. - LOL

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

That's funny.
Why do the Apostles make themselves look like bungling idiots?

Almost no actual Bible scholar, including the religious ones, believes that Acts was actually written by any apostle. So it's like asking why Gollum makes himself look like an idiot. He didn't. Tolkien did.

You would think that a fabrication would put a LOT more shine on the apple.

(now I suppose I'll get lectures about apples. - sigh)

Not sure what you mean about apple, since it's almost as far as it can get from the Genesis story. But if you mean why isn't the story perfect... well, why isn't Plan 9 From Outer Space perfect? Why isn't the latest Star Wars movie a blockbuster hit? Why didn't they polish Star Trek Academy into a gem? Because that's the limit of the author's skill or intent or time he can dedicate to that.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

The question is what you should do now that your brain has matured and what you learned propositionally as a child doesn't seem to correlate with an objective observed reality.

Of what value is a religion that correlates with an observed reality?
Shouldn't we expect more than that?

 

[JayUtah]

There is no merit to my religious beliefs. Take it or leave it.

We keep leaving it, but you keep starting threads to tell us more.

What are you trying to accomplish by posting to this forum? Do you honestly think we don't already know what Christianity's truth claims are?

 

[JayUtah]

Of what value is a religion that correlates with an observed reality?

Either none whatsoever (because it's superfluous) or of ultimate value (because it is provably true).

Shouldn't we expect more than that?

No. Your desire to imagine yourself to be best friends with a deity doesn't matter.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's funny, religious people will fight for their personal fairy tales and call other people's fairy tales "stupid".

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Almost no actual Bible scholar, including the religious ones, believes that Acts was actually written by any apostle.

That seems like a GROSS misstatement.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

None whatsoever.

Doesn't that prove my point?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Of what value is a religion that correlates with an observed reality?
Shouldn't we expect more than that?

IF it did actually correlate with observable reality, and you could predict reality (however imperfectly) based on it, then it wouldn't be faith, it would be science.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

IF it did actually correlate with observable reality, and you could predict reality (however imperfectly) based on it, then it wouldn't be faith, it would be science.

Right. Of no value whatsoever.

A miracle isn't a miracle unless it's a miracle.

If everyone could walk on water, it wouldn't be a miracle when Jesus and Peter did it.
You claim they didn't because no one can.

 

[Pixel42]

These are more than just book-read stories to me. I have been living it.
I shared some of my testimonies earlier. Divine encounters, healings, visions, etc.
No one believed a word of it, of course. I don't have the required peer-reviewed scientific paper s to prove anything.
I person's word is worthless around here.

Do you understand that it's not your word we are doubting?

It's not your reports of your experiences that we question, it's your interpretation of them. There are mundane explanations for all of them.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Right. Of no value whatsoever.

A miracle isn't a miracle unless it's a miracle.

But ♫ a K.I.S.S. is just a K.I.S.S. ... ♫

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Right. Of no value whatsoever.

Basically, yes. Until your faith can be shown to actually correlate with observable reality and be of any use in making anything in observable reality, then, yes, as you say, it is completely, totally, utterly, lacking any value whatsoever.

 

[jimbob]

I have merged 6 threads as they all seem to be overlapping in their subject matter

@Rusty Tyler do not start other threads about Christianity, the Bible, or religion, or religion Vs science etc

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[P.J. Denyer]

There is no merit to my religious beliefs.

Truest thing you've posted here and I doubt you'll get any argument.

 

[JayUtah]

Doesn't that prove my point?

How do you think it proves your point? Lay out the argument in all its premises and conclusions.