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Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

I know the Van Allen belts are old news, and obviously I am not a radiation expert as Vixen apparently is, but isn't the general idea that radiation danger is clocked in exposure over time, so passing through the belts was simply a matter of keeping the time low, and monitoring exposure to the crew and equipment? I assume they had already done so in unmanned missions long before.

In over simplified terms, your skin can be cooked with sufficient exposure to ultraviolet radiation from Father Sun, but it doesn't fry off your bones while walking from the house to the car?
 
Given the sheer amount of fuel needed, why, it's a freaking miracle Apollo 11 journeyed 300,000 more miles than the recent Artemis II and NASA never thought shortage of fuel could ever be a problem there.
Seagoon: That's my pilot now. That's my boy. Hello there! Don't land!
Sellers: I can't land.
Seagoon: Why not?
Sellers: I haven't got enough petrol.
Seagoon: Curse!
 
To be fair, that paragraph of ignorant drivel wasn't too dumb for @Vixen.
If your goal is to get another five pages of attention at any cost, why not post the most irresistibly, outrageously stupid and wrong thing you can find? I doubt that @Vixen has any further delusions of her competence to discuss the Apollo missions, so why try.
 
There were 5,771 photos taken over a total of 4,834 minutes, over all six missions (excl. Rover photos) or one every 50 secs, according to Marcus Allen. The Hasselblad shutter speed is 1.5 sec, for the shutter to open and shut and auto-wind on to the next frame. Apollo 11 took 123 surface pics in 151 minutes does the maths work?
Vixen, can you clarify what you’re asking here? You’ve already been asked multiple times but haven’t responded. What maths is it that would or wouldn’t work? You seem to be asking it it’s possible to take 123 photos in 151 minutes if it takes 1.5 seconds to take each photo.

Have I misunderstood you? Do you want someone to do the maths of figuring out for if 151 minutes, is enough time to take 123 photographs if it takes 1.5 seconds to take each photo? The answer is yes, very obviously, I can provide the maths if you need.

No doubt you meant something else, entirely and utterly different to what you actually wrote, and we’re idiots for misunderstanding you, so humour us and explain what you’re getting at.

Also, 1.5 seconds is not the shutter speed. You really should know that if you’re going to attempt to lecture people about photography and make claims to superior knowledge about the subject, but you do have a habit of playing very fast and loose with terminology you’re not familiar with, so this is par for the course.
 
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...but isn't the general idea that radiation danger is clocked in exposure over time, so passing through the belts was simply a matter of keeping the time low, and monitoring exposure to the crew and equipment? I assume they had already done so in unmanned missions long before.
Correct. Regardless of its type, radiation can be measured over a conceptual two-dimensional space of energy and intensity. For particle radiation, such as the trapped radiation belts, energy equates to particle velocity. Energy deposited during absorption equates to particle velocity combined with particle mass—essentially kinetic energy. Intensity is how dense the particle presence is. That's measured in the number of particles passing through a conceptual small square window in one second—the "flux density." Radition is isotropic if it doesn't matter which direction that window is facing. But in the end you have a measurement like, "such-and-such flux density at such-and-such energy—for all energies present."

Total effect for some encounter, then, is energy times flux density times time of exposure. The thing you have to realize is that because you're moving through a zone where energy and flux vary greatly from place to place, a proper time-integral of exposure equates to a gnarly space-integral. You follow a path through the trapped radiation where time spent at each instance of a flux/energy profile is dictated by your orbital mechanics. The shape and location of that path matters. The speed matters, but is rigidly determined by your orbital mechanics—which depends on the shape of the path.

The AE-8 and AP-8 models developed from data collected by Apollo spacecraft were the gold standard of predicting exposure in the trapped radiation belt for decades. They have only recently been superseded by AE-9 and AP-9. If those models had been wrong, hundreds of space engineering projects would have failed dramatically (e.g., GPS, GLONASS).

Absorption in non-living materials is cumulative. Solar panels are especially susceptible to this. It doesn't largely matter whether damage accumulates via long-term, low-level exposure or acute high-level exposure. In contrast, absorption in living tissue is a more complex phenomenon. Tissue heals, so even fairly acute doses can be healed from (e.g., a chest x-ray). Injury is semi-cumulative, barring very high-order acute exposure (e.g., people at Chernobyl). Long-term exposure to low-level radiation is often more dangerous. I usually illustrate this by saying one is like having someone throw a glass of water at you. You're momentarily quite wet, but you dry off. Other exposure is like standing under a light drizzle for hours. You aren't especially wet right away, but you never dry off. Thus the real concern has been the astronauts in the ISS who pass through a relatively mild low-hanging region of the inner belt six times a day.

The aeroshell of the Apollo CM was made of stainless steel honeycomb. The inner pressure vessel was made from aluminum. In between was a fibrous insulation material specifically of low molecular density. In addition, much of the operation equipment surrounded the lower portion of the CM cabin, where the crew was most likely to be. The shielding factor was nominally 7-8 g/cm2 and up to 10 g/cm2 in places. This is perfectly adequate for a fast transit of the trapped radiation belts.
 
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The aeroshell of the Apollo CM was made of stainless steel honeycomb. The inner pressure vessel was made from aluminum. In between was a fibrous insulation material specifically of low molecular density.
Low molecular density to mitigate Bremsstrahlung, or "braking radiation"
 
Low molecular density to mitigate Bremsstrahlung, or "braking radiation"
Correct: that happens in the outer electron belt. Some high-energy electrons are absorbed in the outer stainless steel and create x-rays, which are then attenuated by the inner aluminum shell. The goal is for most of the high-energy electrons to pass through the steel and be trapped instead by the LMW materials, which do not produce secondary radiation when they absorb electrons.
 
... No doubt you meant something else, entirely and utterly different to what you actually wrote, and we’re idiots for misunderstanding you
No. Vixen started doing the back-of-an-envelope calculation and stopped when going further would make it obvious how silly it was.

Either that or somehow she got " confused with ' but it's hard to imagine how that could have happened.
 
I am afraid it is a real phenomenon. The Apollo 11 spacecraft was of mere thin aluminium and the space suit fabric designed to supposedly prevent the astronauts from either boiling or freezing as well as protecting them from the very real Galactic Cosmic Radiation [GCR]. The debunkers will tell you the spacecraft passed through these high GCR Van Allen belts 'very rapidly' and NASA spokespersons - PR - will suggest that why, Van Allen himself, whom the doughnut-shaped belts of especially intense GCR is named after, was on the NASA team*. They will never confirm it but they'll 'suggest' the spacecraft went via the 'safe route' via one of the poles. This of course is mere 'iffing and butting' but not actually verified fact. Whilst orbiting planets is a relative doddle, landing and mucking about with cameras is pure nonsense and then taking off again, based on a closely followed script (there was no software) plus NASA claims to have lost 700 boxes of telemetry and the original film, I do wonder at the general public's gullibility. Given the sheer amount of fuel needed, why, it's a freaking miracle Apollo 11 journeyed 300,000 more miles than the recent Artemis II and NASA never thought shortage of fuel could ever be a problem there.

*This is the laughable standard of 'debunking'.
Again, why is any of this a problem for you? You believe the missions happened as described in the historical record. You're making a show of objecting to things you know are unobjectionable.
 
It is, but it's not as if you know anything about it.


Wrong.


Wrong.


Wrong.


Correct, he was.


Wrong.


Wrong.


Wrong.


Wrong.


Wrong.


You couldn't even find a sober conspiracy theorist to crib from?
I was so hoping for a prefect record, but sadly, she didn't get everything wrong... Better luck next time, I know you can do it!
 
Correct. Regardless of its type, radiation can be measured over a conceptual two-dimensional space of energy and intensity. For particle radiation, such as the trapped radiation belts, energy equates to particle velocity. Energy deposited during absorption equates to particle velocity combined with particle mass—essentially kinetic energy. Intensity is how dense the particle presence is. That's measured in the number of particles passing through a conceptual small square window in one second—the "flux density." Radition is isotropic if it doesn't matter which direction that window is facing. But in the end you have a measurement like, "such-and-such flux density at such-and-such energy—for all energies present."

Total effect for some encounter, then, is energy times flux density times time of exposure. The thing you have to realize is that because you're moving through a zone where energy and flux vary greatly from place to place, a proper time-integral of exposure equates to a gnarly space-integral. You follow a path through the trapped radiation where time spent at each instance of a flux/energy profile is dictated by your orbital mechanics. The shape and location of that path matters. The speed matters, but is rigidly determined by your orbital mechanics—which depends on the shape of the path.

The AE-8 and AP-8 models developed from data collected by Apollo spacecraft were the gold standard of predicting exposure in the trapped radiation belt for decades. They have only recently been superseded by AE-9 and AP-9. If those models had been wrong, hundreds of space engineering projects would have failed dramatically (e.g., GPS, GLONASS).

Absorption in non-living materials is cumulative. Solar panels are especially susceptible to this. It doesn't largely matter whether damage accumulates via long-term, low-level exposure or acute high-level exposure. In contrast, absorption in living tissue is a more complex phenomenon. Tissue heals, so even fairly acute doses can be healed from (e.g., a chest x-ray). Injury is semi-cumulative, barring very high-order acute exposure (e.g., people at Chernobyl). Long-term exposure to low-level radiation is often more dangerous. I usually illustrate this by saying one is like having someone throw a glass of water at you. You're momentarily quite wet, but you dry off. Other exposure is like standing under a light drizzle for hours. You aren't especially wet right away, but you never dry off. Thus the real concern has been the astronauts in the ISS who pass through a relatively mild low-hanging region of the inner belt six times a day.

The aeroshell of the Apollo CM was made of stainless steel honeycomb. The inner pressure vessel was made from aluminum. In between was a fibrous insulation material specifically of low molecular density. In addition, much of the operation equipment surrounded the lower portion of the CM cabin, where the crew was most likely to be. The shielding factor was nominally 7-8 g/cm2 and up to 10 g/cm2 in places. This is perfectly adequate for a fast transit of the trapped radiation belts.
From what I understand, the steps NASA took to minimize exposure to the belts didn't even involve drastic changes to the mission profile.

You already want to go "really fast" through that volume of space because Oberth effect.
You need a thermal protection system anyway for the capsule to withstand re-entry.
The moon's orbital plane is already inclined to the earth's magnetic equator.
 
From what I understand, the steps NASA took to minimize exposure to the belts didn't even involve drastic changes to the mission profile.
Correct. This illustrates the rhetorical problem with conspiracy theories in general. All it takes for someone to raise an issue on this point is to flail their hands wildly and yell, "Aaaaugh! Radiation!" To most people, radiation is a kind of boogey man. It doesn't take much to stir up a lot of ignorant fear about it. The claimants can't give you dose specifics or shield factors. That's simply not in their ken.

When someone who knows the problem tries to explain what a nothing-burger it is, it comes off sounding dismissive and facile. It seems as if the conspiracy claimant has brought the receipts, and the debunking is just brushing it off.

Especially with technical subjects like space engineering, it's easy to drum up "problems" that seem insurmountable, but only because the claimant doesn't understand how to surmount them. When an expert says, "That's actually not a big deal," the claimant never wants to consider that their expectations were naive.
 

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