• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Replaceable phone batteries

A quick search suggests that between its first and second owners a smartphone tends to last about 6 years, and the common reasons for discarding them are the battery is failing or because they stop receiving updates. So it seems reasonable to think a fair proportion of smartphones will have economic life left in them if replacing their battery is cheaper and easier.

With my optimist hat on, if it's approaching half of phones eventually scrapped because a battery swap is too expensive to be worthwhile, then making that cheaper and easier might save perhaps half of those, for the lifetime of a new battery. Maybe 2-3 years.

So you might stretch the average phone's life from about 6 years to about 6 and a half. That's not peanuts.

Another factor is that a lot of old IT tech, smart phones in particular, is being donated from richer countries where they're obsolete to poorer countries where they're potentially life changing. Making the number of devices that could go this route and be in use for a several years and making it quicker, easier and with fewer destroyed devices when charities refurbish devices for some of the poorest people on the planet seems like a good thing.
 
Couple of thoughts. I'm fine with the EU doing this, its up to them. I'd like to see some way of measuring the impacts written in to laws like this. Sometimes they have counterintuitive impacts. The one that comes to mind is banning plastic grocery bags increased consumption of purpose produced plastic garbage bags. There is a non-zero though probably not very high chance that this could increase e-waste if consumers ditch batteries more quickly than they would have ditched phones with similar battery performance declines.

This is more of a general desire on my part to see most laws have metrics for success written in with conditions for sunsetting or keeping based on that.

Sure, this doesn't increase consumer choice but that's not the goal and frankly, as a consumer, this isn't exactly an important choice.

Is it a good law? The goal is reducing e waste which is in my opinion more important than my choice to have a replaceable battery or not. So, its a good law if it reduces e-waste in some significant way. If saves one phone from the land fill a year, I'd say scrap it though. If it saves a million, probably a good idea. Where I'd draw that line, no idea.

I suppose my question has to be, "How often do you replace your car battery for ◊◊◊◊ and giggles? How about the battery on your PC motherboard?"
 
Extended useful life is important to making the battery replacement thing stick.
Stop changing cell frequency ranges, or maintain existing ones longer.
Stop making software so memory hungry to the point older devices cannot remain useful.

The environment they function in has to stay friendly to thier limits.
It's OK Win95 machines went obsolete but XP range machines could still be usable for more mundane tasks.
They are still quite capable in industrial grade uses.

Gamers and AI might require the latest graphics and memory numbers but clods like myself on forums and simple stuff could get by on a Blackberry phone. I know because I did for a few years.
 
Extended useful life is important to making the battery replacement thing stick.
Stop changing cell frequency ranges, or maintain existing ones longer.
Stop making software so memory hungry to the point older devices cannot remain useful.

The environment they function in has to stay friendly to thier limits.
It's OK Win95 machines went obsolete but XP range machines could still be usable for more mundane tasks.
They are still quite capable in industrial grade uses.

Gamers and AI might require the latest graphics and memory numbers but clods like myself on forums and simple stuff could get by on a Blackberry phone. I know because I did for a few years.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the Linux community does a lot of good in this area. If you've got a device that will boot up, you can probably find a Linux distro that will run on it.
 
The cel phone market actually dictates this though, doesn't it? From the projects to the boardroom, everyone wants the latest and greatest new model. They sell like hotcakes as the features get more advanced. So the manufacturers don't bother with longevity as a factor, because who wants a six year old phone that used to be cool?

I just want a simple device that can take a beating and work well for simple web functioning.
 
The cel phone market actually dictates this though, doesn't it? From the projects to the boardroom, everyone wants the latest and greatest new model. They sell like hotcakes as the features get more advanced. So the manufacturers don't bother with longevity as a factor, because who wants a six year old phone that used to be cool?

I just want a simple device that can take a beating and work well for simple web functioning.

You and a lot of others would love to keep the paid off phone online for years.
I am one myself. I abandoned Andy 4 because it was made obsolete locally and went offline. The old phones still work fine.
My prized Sammy tablet on Andy 4 is sadly useless now too, if not for solitaire and mah jong.
It's like new condition.

PJ, if I had a tame IT guy that could get Linux based software on older units it would be done. I have two old XP era lappy units I would love to do mundane research tasks with. Also two 2015 born machines on Win8 that are still fully operational.

I used to have at least two online for research, one to search and the other for chatting, compiling found info and making it presentable. A USB drive transferred files so one stayed on safer sites.
 
Do you regularly replace onboard batteries that don't need replacing just for the fun of it? If not, why suppose other people will?
Ah, I don't but I think folks that have a battery that is marginal, maybe annoying but not totally useless, they might replace it sooner if it is relatively cheap and easy when they might have waited longer if it came to replacing the whole phone. Just spit balling potential unintended consequences. I don't know if that will happen, but I could absolutely see that being a potential consequence that could offset the potential reduction in waste.

ETA:
I'm sure there are lots of ways to keep old phones operational, most folks including myself just aren't savvy enough to install linux on a phone and keep it working as a phone. Respect if you can.

I'm also on more for the I'd rather not buy the latest and greatest. When I get a new phone, typically and older midrange version rather than the latest and greatest. There is a market for those as well as the fanciest new phone every year. I really appreciate those people though, with out them my last year's model would be a lot more expensive.
 
Last edited:
The cel phone market actually dictates this though, doesn't it? From the projects to the boardroom, everyone wants the latest and greatest new model. They sell like hotcakes as the features get more advanced. So the manufacturers don't bother with longevity as a factor, because who wants a six year old phone that used to be cool?

I just want a simple device that can take a beating and work well for simple web functioning.
You're not so different to "everyone". People often buy the latest model so that theirs won't become obsolete quickly, and thus will work well.
 
I'm torn because there are mid-range phones that will more than adequately replace my old S8. But if I put up twice the money I can get, well, last year's latest and greatest, and maybe that will last me the 8 years this one has.

If it wasn't that my banking app is about to stop working I would happily keep going with this one till something breaks. But then again I can see the benefit of changing while this one works, so I can transfer everything off it.

Hats off to USB-C longevity by the way. I've been plugging this in to charge every night since 2018 and all I've ever had to do is blow the pocket fluff out of it a few times.
 
You and a lot of others would love to keep the paid off phone online for years.
I am one myself. I abandoned Andy 4 because it was made obsolete locally and went offline. The old phones still work fine.
My prized Sammy tablet on Andy 4 is sadly useless now too, if not for solitaire and mah jong.
It's like new condition.

PJ, if I had a tame IT guy that could get Linux based software on older units it would be done. I have two old XP era lappy units I would love to do mundane research tasks with. Also two 2015 born machines on Win8 that are still fully operational.

I used to have at least two online for research, one to search and the other for chatting, compiling found info and making it presentable. A USB drive transferred files so one stayed on safer sites.

It's not so hard you need an IT guy, but I did say I wasn't saying you're wrong, I think XP was a high point in the compromise between usability for the less technically inclined and accessibility 'under the hood' for those that did. I hate that the extremely good image editing software I had, bought and paid for, doesn't work on win 10 and 11 and that if I try to install purchased old Windows versions on old hardware they can't be activated.

But you will always have the option to upgrade hardware when you want to, this is about not making you upgrade because of a part that should be easily replaceable and that sometimes fails relatively early in a products life. And as I've pointed out, devices that are obsolete in the West can sometimes be real game changers when donated to countries where even basic internet access opens up a whole world of information that might not previously been avaliable.
 
I just paid a bill and, right on cue, the banking app told me it will soon stop working unless I update my phone to Android 10, which Samsung isn't interested in supporting on this old hardware. <Sigh.>
This should be the next thing for the EU to target. Just because your Android version is seven years old is no good reason for your bank to reject it.

This gets into issues of hardware and software churn. My laptop is ten years old. Aside from being a little slow, I can still install the latest version of Linux on it and have a fully up-to-date system.

First, there should be a mandate that all smartphone sellers—either the manufacturer or the phone company—be required to take back the device at end of its (useful) life at no charge to the customer, and that the device be reused, recycled, or securely stored. Putting the burden on the supplier instead of the public to handle obsolete devices should cause a slowdown in the relentless push to add more features in the quest to sell even more new devices.

Second, although this will be more difficult, mandate that all smartphones must be upgradeable to the latest version of the operating system, or a suitable approximation thereof, for a period of at least ten years from the date of manufacture. It won't be easy: the hardware in smartphones is a mess of proprietary hardware and the equivalent mess of software blobs needed to interact with them. Requiring they be maintainable and accessible for a full decade will mean either maintaining a large library of these software blobs across multiple versions of the OS (a big burden on the supplier) or a much more robust hardware ecosystem—a win for the consumer and the folks who to maintain the operating system.

Ultimately, these mandates should force the industry away from the current walled garden approach of proprietary peripheral hardware and software blobs toward a more modular, standardized hardware ecosystem, similar to the PC industry. This would be a win for consumers and the environment.

For me, sustainability is more important than any corporation's balance sheet.
 
Last edited:
I'm torn because there are mid-range phones that will more than adequately replace my old S8. But if I put up twice the money I can get, well, last year's latest and greatest, and maybe that will last me the 8 years this one has.

If it wasn't that my banking app is about to stop working I would happily keep going with this one till something breaks. But then again I can see the benefit of changing while this one works, so I can transfer everything off it.

Hats off to USB-C longevity by the way. I've been plugging this in to charge every night since 2018 and all I've ever had to do is blow the pocket fluff out of it a few times.

I seem to remember a lot of people complaining about USB C being made the standard too.
 
Last edited:
This should be the next thing for the EU to target. Just because your Android version is seven years old is no good reason for your bank to reject it.

This gets into issues of hardware and software churn. My laptop is ten years old. Aside from being a little slow, I can still install the latest version of Linux on it and have a fully up-to-date system.

First, there should be a mandate that all smartphone sellers—either the manufacturer or the phone company—be required to take back the device at end of its (useful) life at no charge to the customer, and that the device be reused, recycled, or securely stored. Putting the burden on the supplier instead of the public to handle obsolete devices should cause a slowdown in the relentless push to add more features in the quest to sell even more new devices.

Second, although this will be more difficult, mandate that all smartphones must be upgradeable to the latest version of the operating system, or a suitable approximation thereof, for a period of at least ten years from the date of manufacture. It won't be easy: the hardware in smartphones is a mess of proprietary hardware and the equivalent mess of software blobs needed to interact with them. Requiring they be maintainable and accessible for a full decade will mean either maintaining a large library of these software blobs across multiple versions of the OS (a big burden on the supplier) or a much more robust hardware ecosystem—a win for the consumer and the folks who to maintain the operating system.

Ultimately, these mandates should force the industry away from the current walled garden approach of proprietary peripheral hardware and software blobs toward a more modular, standardized hardware ecosystem, similar to the PC industry. This would be a win for consumers and the environment.

For me, sustainability is more important than any corporation's balance sheet.
I am interested in your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
I got my replacement battery and did a backup of my phone. The problem is, it's stored on the Cloud somewhere and I can't find it to verify it. There doesn't seem to be a way just to simply back up everything to my laptop. (Samsung A51). I know I should be able to restore from that ghostly Cloud location should something happen, but I prefer to have something local. I'm a bit hesitant to proceed with the replacement until I can see it.
 
I got my replacement battery and did a backup of my phone. The problem is, it's stored on the Cloud somewhere and I can't find it to verify it. There doesn't seem to be a way just to simply back up everything to my laptop. (Samsung A51). I know I should be able to restore from that ghostly Cloud location should something happen, but I prefer to have something local. I'm a bit hesitant to proceed with the replacement until I can see it.

Presumably this is a Google backup? I've always found it good for contacts etc (check your GMail address book). Photos etc not so much, I'd plug in and copy across locally. Apps are generally redownloaded as part of the initial setup. (Which you shouldn't need to go through)
 
I got my replacement battery and did a backup of my phone. The problem is, it's stored on the Cloud somewhere and I can't find it to verify it. There doesn't seem to be a way just to simply back up everything to my laptop. (Samsung A51). I know I should be able to restore from that ghostly Cloud location should something happen, but I prefer to have something local. I'm a bit hesitant to proceed with the replacement until I can see it.
It is possible to do some form of backup using `adb` via a USB connection. I've never tried to restore such a backup, though. (`adb` is part of the Android development kit.)
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom