Split Thread DEI in the US

[d4m10n]

i think it’s completely fair that the words, actions, and policy positions of a movements leader’s are representative of the movement itself

I doubt whether the average #MAGA sticker owner could pick Nick Fuentes or the Proud Boys out of a lineup.

 

[dirtywick]

I doubt whether the average #MAGA sticker owner could pick Nick Fuentes or the Proud Boys out of a lineup.

why? they’re famous, they’ve made national headlines on multiple occasions each. additionally, the same can’t be said for stephen miller, who’s a regular on fox news and has way more actual power over the movement and the government

 

[arthwollipot]

I doubt whether the average #MAGA sticker owner could pick Nick Fuentes or the Proud Boys out of a lineup.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[thaiboxerken]

What does that have to do with anything?

He's trying to make a case that not all MAGA support white supremacy. It's a pretty terrible argument, considering all of the evidence and facts.

 

[d4m10n]

they’re famous, they’ve made national headlines on multiple occasions each.

Fuentes is mildly famous online (~1.2% as many followers on Twitter as The Man Himself) but most Trump voters are over 50 and think online mostly means Facebook. To claim that he represents what MAGA believes is silly by the numbers, but it is also silly based on his own words.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2042588379741659624

 

[d4m10n]

He's trying to make a case that not all MAGA support white supremacy.

No, I'm trying to understand the evidence in support of your claim that anyone we meet who supports MAGA may be reasonably supposed to support white supremacy. That is your claim, and I am skeptical as to whether you have any evidence directly supporting that claim.

 

[d4m10n]

the same can’t be said for stephen miller, who’s a regular on fox news and has way more actual power over the movement and the government

Miller himself seems relatively white supremacist (especially about replacement theory) but I don't know how much MAGA voters support him. When you say a "movements leader’s are representative of the movement itself" I have to agree, but I doubt many people look up to Miller unless he happens to be standing next to Trump.

 

[arthwollipot]

If you vote for a white supremacist, then you're either a white supremacist yourself, or you're okay with your elected representative being a white supremacist.

 

[dirtywick]

Fuentes is mildly famous online (~1.2% as many followers on Twitter as The Man Himself) but most Trump voters are over 50 and think online mostly means Facebook. To claim that he represents what MAGA believes is silly by the numbers, but it is also silly based on his own words.

ok, some trump voters are under 50 and hang out in kick and rumble streams. so what.

anyway, nick fuentes was brought up as one of many examples in a post listing reasons one could believe that maga is a white supremacist movement. no need to get to caught up in focusing solely on nick fuentes. if you don't think it's a good example, fine, there were more to choose from.

 

[d4m10n]

If you vote for a white supremacist, then you're either a white supremacist yourself, or you're okay with your elected representative being a white supremacist.

Other than literal racial supremacy, what does someone have to affirm to be a white supremacist in your book? Is opposing DEI or AA enough, as some claim here? Supporting tighter immigration laws? Believing that non-European immigrants might supplant the descendants of European immigrants?

 

[d4m10n]

nick fuentes was brought up as one of many examples in a post listing reasons one could believe that maga is a white supremacist movement.

Implying that the guy who just said "◊◊◊◊ MAGA" is a leader in that movement seems like a bad gambit to me.

 

[dirtywick]

Miller himself seems relatively white supremacist (especially about replacement theory) but I don't know how much MAGA voters support him. When you say a "movements leader’s are representative of the movement itself" I have to agree, but I doubt many people look up to Miller unless he happens to be standing next to Trump.

well, he's the chief of staff and the primary architect of trump's hardline immigration policy. if they support his policy, they support stephen miller, even if they don't realize who wrote it.

see, i think you kind of have this backwards. it doesn't really matter if they know who stephen miller is and support him directly, they like his white supremacist ideas and support those. which is probably worse imo

 

[d4m10n]

they like his white supremacist ideas and support those

Now this is exactly the sort of claim which could be shown to be true or false using survey data.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Now this is exactly the sort of claim which could be shown to be true or false using survey data.

You mean, voting for white supremacists isn't enough for you to be convinced that they support white supremacy?

 

[dirtywick]

Now this is exactly the sort of claim which could be shown to be true or false using survey data.

if you want, take a look at how trump polled amongst maga voters on immigration and let me know what you find out

 

[arthwollipot]

Other than literal racial supremacy, what does someone have to affirm to be a white supremacist in your book?

Is opposing DEI or AA enough? Supporting tighter immigration?

Well, that would be using openly white supremacist language or dogwhistles (such as "88"), promoting and spreading white supremacist conspiracy theories (like the Great Replacement theory), or advocating and supporting openly white supremacist candidates (like Steve King). Not an exhaustive list.

 

[dirtywick]

Implying that the guy who just said "◊◊◊◊ MAGA" is a leader in that movement seems like a bad gambit to me.

i think until pretty recently nick was saying the opposite.

also, i wouldn't really consider nick a leader of the movement. he was undoubtedly an alt right maga influencer for a number of years tho

 

[d4m10n]

advocating and supporting openly white supremacist candidates (like Steve King)

Failing to condemn isn't quite the same as supporting.

take a look at how trump polled amongst maga voters on immigration

If hoping or working for less immigration is a sign of white supremacy, then of course MAGA is white supremacist.

I suspect there may be non-racist reasons why someone might argue in favor of firm national borders, however.

 

[dirtywick]

If hoping or working for less immigration is a sign of white supremacy, then of course MAGA is white supremacist.

I suspect there may be non-racist reasons why someone might argue in favor of firm national borders, however.

the maga view on immigrants is pretty blatant. not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

 

[Trausti]

the maga view on immigrants is pretty blatant. not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

Isn't the "MAGA" view on immigrants pretty much the norm in the rest of the world? It was the Democrat norm less than a generation ago.