Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

Yep. 100% certain.

Objectively so?

 

[Darat]

Objectively so?

Yep.

 

[Poem]

Yep.

Care to expound?

eta: or have I asked before?

 

[Darat]

Please provide me the source of objective morality.

 

[Poem]

Please provide me the source of objective morality.

I can't, but I am asking you to establish your certainty that there isn't. Did you check the cellar?

 

[Darat]

I can't, but I am asking you to establish your certainty that there isn't. Did you check the cellar?

Firstly there is no evidence for an objective morality, secondly the very concept is incoherent which is why I am certain it doesn't exist.

 

[Lithrael]

Someone quick, link us to one of the old IPU/garage dragon threads

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Did you check the cellar?

◊◊◊◊. Is THAT what this is? I think I used up the last of it arguing that Firefly and Buffy exist in the same shared universe.

But I'll tell you what, we've got lots of cans of moral relativity still kicking around. According to the instructions, you're supposed to apply liberally, then let it calcify as the rest of society moves on, and it'll end up pretty much the same thing. Wanna give that a go?

 

[Poem]

◊◊◊◊. Is THAT what this is? I think I used up the last of it arguing that Firefly and Buffy exist in the same shared universe.

But I'll tell you what, we've got lots of cans of moral relativity still kicking around. According to the instructions, you're supposed to apply liberally, then let it calcify as the rest of society moves on, and it'll end up pretty much the same thing. Wanna give that a go?

I have no idea what any of this means.

 

[theprestige]

That's very cynical TP.

Years of threads like this have turned me into a cynic.

You have expressed concern over absent fathers - so my point is (and I think most will agree) that we do not have a great track record when it comes to relationships and child-rearing

Who's "we'?

- and legalising porn will be part of the reason why it's poor.

A claim you've repeated many times.

And saturating young kids with rule 34 porn is off the scale bad in that respect. It shouldn't take a kid to shout out that the emperor is in fact naked.

Another claim you've repeated many times.

 

[Poem]

Years of threads like this have turned me into a cynic.


Who's "we'?

Humans.

I mean, how selfish would you judge our record on relationships and child-bearing to be? You don't have to look further than Darwinism to know that we are programmed to be self-centred.

A claim you've repeated many times.
Another claim you've repeated many times.

Right, do we / should we have some sense of responsibility when it comes to forming a relationship with a partner - particularly in the context of raising a child. Yes or no? How else are we going to bring about social change in a positive way?

Now rebut the clear fact that most porn promotes the very opposite of said responsibility - making sex a trivial commodity.

You are a nihilist, so you are always going to struggle articulate why porn is so corrosive. It should be glaringly obvious to anyone that it represents an indulgence of our selfish nature and, in part, why society isn't working.

 

[acbytesla]

Nihilism: belief that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

I hold a nihilist perspective. Not that it matters. The key words in the definition of nihilism is intrinsic and objective meaning. There is no purpose beyond what any of us subjectively attribute to it. I value life very much. But that is totally subjective.

They reject established religious, moral, and social beliefs, often concluding that because nothing matters fundamentally, human existence is useless.
This mindset can range from apathy to extreme cynicism, viewing all values as baseless.

Nonsense. It is tremendously liberating. Once one understands that the universe doesn't care about us individually and that actual meaning comes from within, we are able to stop searching outside of ourselves for it. We can then decide for ourselves what has meaning and what doesn't. We don't require others to assign the meaning of life to us.

That is the dumbest stupidest thing I've ever heard uttered by theists. God called on them. ROFLMAO! No it didn't. That was a voice in your head.

And by the way, I absolutely reject religious beliefs. But that's because everty single one of them over thousands of years fail at proving there is any truth to them.

What moral and social beliefs I accept are personally subjective. As is everyone's.

Porn follows directly from a nihilistic world view and there are some such adherents here.

You just make this crap up as you go. Don't you? One non sequitor after another.
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

And I'm not an adherent to nihilism. The moment anyone can prove purpose objectively. I'll believe it.

 

[3point14]

Now rebut the clear fact that most porn promotes the very opposite of said responsibility - making sex a trivial commodity.

You know it's possible to have sex for reasons other than making babies, right?

 

[Poem]

You know it's possible to have sex for reasons other than making babies, right?

Sure.

Who is responsible when the unplanned baby does happen? Should we just carry on and expunge the said unwanted item?

 

[3point14]

Sure.

Who is responsible when the unplanned baby does happen? Should we just carry on and expunge the said unwanted item?

The parents. Or adoptive parents if the child is given up for adoption. Or nobody if the pregnancy is terminated.

 

[acbytesla]

Sure.

Who is responsible when the unplanned baby does happen? Should we just carry on and expunge the said unwanted item?

Use birth control. Doh!

 

[3point14]

Use birth control. Doh!

Or indulge in one of the many mutual stimulation options that can't result in pregnancy.

(I suspect that both your and my solution will not be acceptable to our interlocutor for reasons.)

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I have no idea what any of this means.

Well, moral relativism is the notion that moral values can differ greatly between individuals without necessitating normative constraints.

For example, earlier you made light of the idea that someone might seek a divorce because their partner dyed their hair red. The thing is, it may seem silly and frivolous to you, but in your hypothetical it is a big deal to them, a divorce worthy deal. That's where moral relativism comes in. They do not need to justify their divorce to you. It is none of your business. Likewise, they do not get to insist that you should get a divorce for dying your hair red. It is none of their business either.

Extending that logic, I think you will be surprised at how much behavior from other humans remains none of your business, no matter how strong your opinions thereof.

 

[acbytesla]

Well, moral relativism is the notion that moral values can differ greatly between individuals without necessitating normative constraints.

For example, earlier you made light of the idea that someone might seek a divorce because their partner dyed their hair red. The thing is, it may seem silly and frivolous to you, but in your hypothetical it is a big deal to them, a divorce worthy deal. That's where moral relativism comes in. They do not need to justify their divorce to you. It is none of your business. Likewise, they do not get to insist that you should get a divorce for dying your hair red. It is none of their business either.

Extending that logic, I think you will be surprised at how much behavior from other humans remains none of your business, no matter how strong your opinions thereof.

The whole idea that theists argue they have with moral objectivism is total nonsense. They like to pretend their position is morally superior.

It isn't. They pick and choose their morality like everyone else.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

The whole idea that theists argue they have with moral objectivism is total nonsense. They like to pretend their position is morally superior.

It isn't. They pick and choose their morality like everyone else.

Right now they do, yes, because apparently Poem was storing all his objective morality in his cellar in containers labeled "argumental imperative." He's going to have to make do until he can go back to his god or whomever to restock, sorry not sorry #whedonverse.