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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

The idea that this hurts China and not the US is the most extreme form of post-hoc rationalization.

Does China not produce goods that are bought in the US?

Trump has already backed down on tariffs on China when it finally dawned on what passes for a mind of his that China are far too integrated into US companies supply chains. If China ends up having to pay more oil, and it seems that their tankers are not being impeded anyway, then clearly that would affect US prices and US manufacturers in the US which often is little more than assembling parts from China anyway.
 
dirtywick said:
theintercept.com

“Casualty Cover-Up”: The Pentagon Is Hiding U.S. Losses Under Trump in the Middle East

The Pentagon has sent outdated statements on the number of U.S. troops killed or wounded during the Iran War, resulting in undercounts.
theintercept.com theintercept.com

claims that the pentagon is undercounting casualties in iran excursion
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Sort of a reverse of the exaggerated body counts of the VIet Cong in Vietnam.
angrysoba said:
Probably shouldn’t bring up “Dane” when it comes to threats and extortion.
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The guy you are referring too probably never read the Kipling poem.
But I agree, war or no war, paying Iran to keep the straits open is NOT a good idea. Will just lead to more problems in the future.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Paying off the Iranians is just another cost of doing business, like importing stuff into the US and paying the new tariffs. Both costs due to Trump, of course. You might resent the indignity of paying but unless you have a cheaper idea it makes most sense to go along with it for now.
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I strongly disagree. it's bad policy, and will just lead to huge problems in the near future.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I've become very cynical. At present it seems like our "allies" are happy to kowtow to a country that actively drives terrorism throughout the globe so that they can keep their oil coming in. Despite constant focus on climate change and the need to shift off of oil, our "allies" are perfectly willing to get in bed with a country that pays people to attack you and everyone else so they can feed their oil habit.
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You do know that this is at best exaggeration, at worst untrue? Which allies are kowtowing to Iran? India, Pakistan, Philippines, China? They are the ones getting their shipping through. Iran didn't drive terrorism throughout the globe. If you term actions by Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorism (then you also define the US as a terrorist state), they are limited to their own states, more broadly to the middle east. Unlike Saudi funded terrorism which was global. As you say, your allies are the ones shifting off the oil habit (LNG is more of an issue for Europe). Previously Europe was dependent on Russia for LNG, and shifted off due to the Ukraine war. But Europe isn't buying LNG or oil from Iran.

China has however being establishing land connections with rail to Iran.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Iran doesn't have to attack European shipping. The strait is currently closed because Iran violated international law and placed sea mines in an international shipping lane.

But that's okay with the defenders of Iran, because Trump is the antichrist and the country that has been actively funding and directing international terrorist organizations for decades is the real victim.
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No. Iran hasn't yet mined the straights. You need to review your source of information. That is why a lot of ships are passing through, with permission from Iran. I would again call you out on the international terrorism. The true global terrorist is the US. Israel to a lesser extent. Iran's 'terrorism' is local.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I don't know whether they foresaw Iran being willing to violate international law as a possible outcome or not. Given that Iran has been actively violating international law by funding and directing terrorism against European and North American nations for decades, it should surprise nobody at all.
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It was absolutely predicted that if attacked iran would close the straights. Iran hasn't funded terrorism against European or North American states.
 
Emily's Cat said:
The US has considerable reserves, secured a sizable supply from Venezuela (while simultaneously denying that resource to China and Russia), and has rather sizable unmined deposits in Alaska and throughout the southwest. We're not dependent on ME oil. In the past it's been easily available and lets us retain our natural beauty.

Does Europe want to buy some US oil?
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The problem is that global prices impact the US. Unless the US limits exports and forces oil companies to sell below international market prices then US oil is a global commodity. Venezuelan oil isn't much use, and is Venezuelan oil. Extracting new oil reserves isn't an answer to current issues.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The US once shot down a civilian Iranian passenger jet - not really a country in a position to complain about terrorism
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Are you actually claiming that we shot it down knowing that it was a passenger jet filled with civilians? That's your actual take on what happened?

God damn, but you're trying hard with your moral relativism.
 
Ziggurat said:
Are you actually claiming that we shot it down knowing that it was a passenger jet filled with civilians? That's your actual take on what happened?

God damn, but you're trying hard with your moral relativism.
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I think this is just his way of saying that Iran is a state sponsor of terror, and should be opposed at every opportunity, by every available means.
 
Ziggurat said:
Are you actually claiming that we shot it down knowing that it was a passenger jet filled with civilians? That's your actual take on what happened?

God damn, but you're trying hard with your moral relativism.
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The US never apologized or made restitution, strongly implying that it didn't consider it a mistake worth correcting.

It was certainly terrorism to the people of Iran, as are most bombings going on now.

Moral relativism is a useful way to get your head out of your own ass.

Fact is that the US is a major source of terrorism the world over.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
The US never apologized or made restitution
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That isn't true.
en.wikipedia.org

Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
"The United States was criticized for the downing, especially in its initial response. Although not issuing a formal apology, American president Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to Iran, expressing deep regret. In 1996, both governments reached a settlement in the International Court of Justice in which the US agreed to pay US$61.8 million (equivalent to $127 million in 2025) on an ex gratia basis to the families of the victims."
The Great Zaganza said:
It was certainly terrorism to the people of Iran, as are most bombings going on now.
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Terrorism isn't just any form of violence. In particular, terrorism is distinct from ordinary war.
The Great Zaganza said:
Moral relativism is a useful way to get your head out of your own ass.
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No. It's a way for you to shove your head into your own ass.
 
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