Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[The Great Zaganza]

I'm bad at this - are those F-16s ?
that's $100million apiece.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I'm bad at this - are those F-16s ?
that's $100million apiece.

The profile of the one I've seen looked like an F-18. <correction> BBC now reports US Central Command saying they were all F-15s.

Crews appear to have ejected okay. (For certain values of okay - it's not something to do for fun.) and they're tentatively blaming friendly fire.

 

[jimbob]

The profile of the one I've seen looked like an F-18.

Crews appear to have ejected okay. (For certain values of okay - it's not something to do for fun.) and they're tentatively blaming friendly fire.

I wouldn't swear on them being either F15s or F18s (I've seen someone claiming F15s) but they definitely look to have twin tails, so one of those and to me, the angle of the tail does look more like an F18

Edit, looks like they were F15s

 

[jimbob]

I wouldn't swear on them being either F15s or F18s (I've seen someone claiming F15s) but they definitely look to have twin tails, so one of those and to me, the angle of the tail does look more like an F18

Edit, looks like they were F15s

Three F15s

Fire at US embassy in Riyadh after drone strike – as it happened

This blog is closed

www.theguardian.com

ETA non expiring link

Middle East crisis live: Kuwait mistakenly shoots down three US fighter planes, as US says Iran’s ‘reckless’ attacks threaten regional stability https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...0863f6a3effa9e#block-69a571fe8f0863f6a3effa9e

 

[Wudang]

US Centcom confirms they were F15s

https://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-View/Article/4418568/three-us-f-15s-involved-in-friendly-fire-incident-in-kuwait-pilots-safe/

 

[Planigale]

One of the historic arguments against 'decapitating enemy leadership' is that it leaves you with no one to negotiate with. Israel has certainly practiced this policy, but with an intent that there will be no negotiation. This has proven to be a difficult policy even in the restricted environment of Gaza, Hamas persists. The promised revolution against Hamas didn't happen. This suggests that the same policy may not be successful in Iran.

Interestingly I heard a comment on the BBC allegedly from Trump, that they (the US) had three favoured candidates to rule Iran, but the attacks had been so successful that only one is still alive (presumed to be Reza Pahlavi). The US yet again overthrowing an Iranian government to put a puppet monarch on the throne may not have the breadth of support in Iran that it does amongst Iranian exiles in the US.

Presumably the leaders in Iran that they hoped might lead a coup, have been killed.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

"... US says Iran’s ‘reckless’ attacks threaten regional stability"

In other news, pot calls kettle black.

 

[Planigale]

Irrelevant. I said "Islamic terrorists and fundamentalists"


1967 borders actually.

And you believe them? How adorable.

According to a March 2006 poll, 70% of Hamas supporters said they would want peace with Israel if a Palestinian state was established, and Israel agreed to return to the 1967 borders.

In 2010, Hamas announced they would accept the outcome of a Palestinian referendum on a peace treaty with Israel even if the results were not in line with their ideology.

However, In 2012, high-ranking Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzook gave an interview in which he expressed a range of opinions that differed from the their previously announced stance. He said that Hamas will not recognize Israel and will not feel bound to understand a peace treaty negotiated by Fatah as a recognition of Israel.

You just cannot believe anything they say.


And again, in your naive fashion, you believe them. I'll give you this - if nothing else, your unwavering gullibility is consistent.

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"​

​

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).​

While a 2017 document attempted to rebrand the group by replacing some antisemitic language with anti-Zionist rhetoric, Hamas has not formally renounced its original charter, and leaders have continued to make statements calling for violence against Jews.

Despite that 2017 statement, Hamas leaders have consistently called for the destruction of Israel and engaged in genocidal rhetoric described. In 2021, Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader in Gaza, expressed support for the "eradication of Israel through armed jihad". In 2023, Hamas official Hamad Al-Regeb called for the "annihilation" and "paralysis" of Jews, referring to them as "filthy animals". After the October 7, 2023 attack, Senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad vowed to repeat the attacks "time and again until Israel is annihilated".

Care to revice your bull-◊◊◊◊ story now?

The reality is Hamas will say or do anything to get their enemies to stop attacking them, so that they have time to rearm, recruits and restock for the next round. If th est or israel are sucked into this bull-◊◊◊◊ again, Hamas will contiunue to do what they have done for decades - suicide bombings and rocket attacks.

Anyone who believes Hamas would accept ANY deal that leaves Israel intact, and a single Jew anywhere in the middle east... is a gullible fool.

Clearly in the same way that anyone believing Israel would allow a Palestinian state and not carry out ethnic cleansing would be? Trump got Hamas to sign a peace deal which included decommisioning of weapons and non belligerance. It is however Israel that is failing to adhere to the peace agreement and the US is failing to enforce the terms as it said it would.

Gaza peace plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ziggurat]

Clearly in the same way that anyone believing Israel would allow a Palestinian state and not carry out ethnic cleansing would be?

The only ethnic cleansing Israel ever conducted was when they removed all Israelis from Gaza.

 

[Ziggurat]

Hamas are Israel's creation. Plus there is absolutely nothing that Hamas has done that isn't directly comparable to what partisan groups did during the nazi occupation of Europe, actions which were deemed lawful and moral under international law.

Partisan groups in Europe raped captives and murdered babies? And that was deemed lawful and moral under international law?

The difference between Hamas and Israel is so vast you can't compare the two.

You're right about that, but not in the way you think.

 

[Thermal]

that word "unscathed" - I don't think it means what you think it means.

Saw a pic elsewhere that I'm not going to reproduce here- one of the pilots was 'degloved'. Looked like only parts of two fingers were left.

 

[The_Animus]

Its simple really. When you attack Israel, I consider that you are, by default supporting Hamas and Islamist terrorism. You are also supporting Iran's backing of such terrorism.

Wow. What an insanely stupid and inherently illogical position to hold.

2. Actually TARGETING civilians.... and I know some people claim they do but its a flat out lie from people who parrot Islamic media such as Al Jazeera (a.k.a. TNN - Terrorist News Network), or western media who uncritically repeat those claims without fact checking. The IDF do everything reasonably possible to warn civilians of impending attacks (roof knocking, broadcasts etc)

This certainly explains the insanely stupid position you take above. Various independent media organizations and independent human rights organizations are all lying and you can't trust any of them. But you can whole heartedly trust the ones accused of committing atrocities because they said so.

The only thing you got right was the first three words. It's simple really. Hamas is a terrorist organization that commits atrocities and deserves condemnation. So is Israel. The only difference is the scale of atrocities and the international support received to commit them.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

No, Israel is the good guys because even though they do horrible things and have genocidal goals, they happen to be a democracy. The same way HAMAS are the good guys because even though they do horrible things and have genocidal goals, they happen to be losing the war. An no, it makes no sense to me, either. It's like watching two drunk goons fight in a bar (with the intent to kill one another). I don't care which one wins, I just want them to stop fighting already.

ETA:
Also, to whoever needs to hear it, whitewashing Palestinian terror by trying to compare it to resistance fighting in World War II is still absolutely reprehensible. Shame on you. (ETA2: And spare me whataboutisms about IDF and Israeli settlers. They are also horrible).

 

[The Great Zaganza]

what else is it but resistance fighting?
Seriously, where is the line?

 

[lionking]

Interestingly I heard a comment on the BBC allegedly from Trump, that they (the US) had three favoured candidates to rule Iran, but the attacks had been so successful that only one is still alive (presumed to be Reza Pahlavi). The US yet again overthrowing an Iranian government to put a puppet monarch on the throne may not have the breadth of support in Iran that it does amongst Iranian exiles in the US.

Presumably the leaders in Iran that they hoped might lead a coup, have been killed.

Something we agree on. Pahlavi would be a disaster.

 

[lionking]

what else is it but resistance fighting?
Seriously, where is the line?

Resistance to what? Hamas had control of Gaza but followed their commitment to try to destroy Israel. Gaza was and could have remained a relatively stable place, but this was not good enough for Hamas. So, what resistance?

 

[arthwollipot]

Seriously, this is what I hate about the Israel-Palestine 'debate' --two factions each sitting in their own trench condemning all the horrors from 'the other side' while for some inexplicable reason thinking they have to simultaneously defend, deflect, or excuse everything their side does. Hearing HAMAS apologists frantically go 'but but but there's only so much space in a city so sometimes a bunker full of weapons and rockets just ends up being sited in the basement of a school (or 'a few metres away' in your case) and whatabout this whataboutism?!' is like listening to trumpkins who think they have to tie themselves into pretzels or start screaming about Obama and Biden every time they see criticism of their Holy Führer. And before you come at me, yes, I know both sides do it, I hate it just as much when it comes from the IDF apologists. I don't know what it is about this particular conflict that makes ordinarily level-headed and rational people turn into screaming apologists for dictatorship, murder, and genocide, but I'm so sick and tired of seeing it.

What about those of us who vocally condemn both sides? I guess we don't exist in your binary world. You're either with us or you're against us. No middle ground. No shades of grey. Well, I say ◊◊◊◊ off to that idea.

Hezbollah then. It doesn’t make a damn difference.

Once again, conflating the country with the extremists that are in that country.

When we do this it's "antisemitism" and "blood libel".

This is how you justify slaughtering civilians. By saying that "it doesn't make a damn difference" between the civilian citizens of a country and terrorists. Between Palestinians and Hamas. Between Lebanese and Hezbollah. They're all terrorists - wipe them out. And if there are a few non-terrorists there, well, I guess God will know his own.

Interestingly I heard a comment on the BBC allegedly from Trump, that they (the US) had three favoured candidates to rule Iran, but the attacks had been so successful that only one is still alive (presumed to be Reza Pahlavi). The US yet again overthrowing an Iranian government to put a puppet monarch on the throne may not have the breadth of support in Iran that it does amongst Iranian exiles in the US.

Presumably the leaders in Iran that they hoped might lead a coup, have been killed.

Nobody knows what's going to happen next.

Three scenarios for what's next with Iran's leadership

No-one really knows who will fill the power vacuum left behind Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Iran.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Safe-Keeper]

what else is it but resistance fighting?
Seriously, where is the line?

If you don't understand the difference between terrorist attacks and resistance fighting I can't explain it to you.

 

[Ziggurat]

what else is it but resistance fighting?
Seriously, where is the line?

How about not murdering infants? How about not raping captives? How about not lighting people on fire?

Hamas was not engaged in "resistance fighting". They were engaged in terrorism, attempted genocide, and war crimes. If you can't figure out that they were WAY past any reasonable line, there's no point in discussing any of this with you.

 

[lionking]

Once again, conflating the country with the extremists that are in that country.

Of all the nitpicking, this takes the cake. Hezbollah is in charge of Lebanon. If Australia, for some reason, bombs another nation, am I not allowed to say “Australia attacked ……” or would you insist on “the Labor Party attacked…..”.