Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor has been arrested...

[angrysoba]

If Andy_Ross's post is correct, Andrew M-W is a rapist, then, not a pedophile, so that makes it all OK, does it?

The quote of "raping a few girls nobody has ever heard of" was not said by anyone.

And nobody is saying "rape is okay". Nobody is saying "trafficking is okay".

Some people are saying that not only is there no actual evidence of Andrew being a paedophile, but none of those other claims are established yet either.

Again, as boring as it is to be a stick-in-the-mud wet-blanket, the very point about skepticism is to look at evidence and draw conclusions tentatively.

The reason why that is hard to do is because it isn't as much fun as being sensationalist and moralizing.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Again, as boring as it is to be a stick-in-the-mud wet-blanket, the very point about skepticism is to look at evidence and draw conclusions tentatively.

I said IF that post was correct.

Let's not jump down each other's throats now, we should work together to get to the facts.

 

[angrysoba]

I said IF that post was correct.

Let's not jump down each other's throats now, we should work together to get to the facts.

I'm not jumping down anyone's throat, but I notice you did say, "so that makes it all OK, does it?" which is rather jump-down-throat-esque.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I'm not jumping down anyone's throat, but I notice you did say, "so that makes it all OK, does it?" which is rather jump-down-throat-esque.

Fair point, but it was in response to Darat jumping down my throat & lecturing me.

Which is why I said "let's now". OK?

 

[smartcooky]

Let's not jump down each other's throats now, we should work together to get to the facts.

 

[Darat]

If Andy_Ross's post is correct, Andrew M-W is a rapist, then, not a pedophile, so that makes it all OK, does it?

Why on earth would you think it is OK under any circumstances that being a rapist could be OK?

 

[Darat]

I'm not jumping down anyone's throat, but I notice you did say, "so that makes it all OK, does it?" which is rather jump-down-throat-esque.

Especially since the post being responded to stated that regardless of the age of the person (as long as over 16) sex with them could still have been rape.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

As the forum hasn't allowed me in for a few days, allow me to go back and respond to a couple of things...

For avoidance of doubt I am only disparaging/casting nasturtiums at Andrew's time in the navy;

A helicopter pilot is still no more professional or qualified than I was and I'm old-fashioned about what I regard as a profession;

Service, especially public service, is not, in this country at least, confined to the military, so, yes, I served the public, as a nurse in the NHS for 3 decades, in a similar way to all the teachers, nurses and physios in my family. So I might argue that we have all been of more use to more folk than anyone in the royal family, as have a whole heap of people up and down the country over vast periods of time. But we don't have hagiographers.

 

[smartcooky]

As the forum hasn't allowed me in for a few days, allow me to go back and respond to a couple of things...

For avoidance of doubt I am only disparaging/casting nasturtiums at Andrew's time in the navy;

A helicopter pilot is still no more professional or qualified than I was and I'm old-fashioned about what I regard as a profession;

Service, especially public service, is not, in this country at least, confined to the military, so, yes, I served the public, as a nurse in the NHS for 3 decades, in a similar way to all the teachers, nurses and physios in my family. So I might argue that we have all been of more use to more folk than anyone in the royal family, as have a whole heap of people up and down the country over vast periods of time. But we don't have hagiographers.

Pilot Trade School: Is Flying a Trade or a Profession?

Discover whether becoming a pilot is a trade or a profession and how pilot trade school compares to college in training, cost, and career outcomes.

pea.com

Trade vs. Profession​

A profession typically involves receiving advanced education beyond grade school. In addition, compared to trades, most professions are paid salaries as opposed to hourly wages for their work. In addition, professions focus on knowledge-based work, though one can argue that trades are similar in that aspect. ​

​

Trades do not require attending a higher education institution before beginning work. It requires very hands-on work, such as carpentry or electrical work. ​

​

There are some professions that use hands-on work, like surgeons and pilots. But, they also require critical thinking, deeper knowledge of their industry, and intensive training before they can begin their career. ​

​

Is Flying a Trade or a Profession?​

Flying an aircraft as a job is typically considered a profession. Before becoming a pilot, all pilots are required to obtain licenses and ratings. Someone cannot begin a career as an airline pilot straight out of high school without attending a professional flight training program. There are many different programs that a student can take, such as a Part 141 program or the more flexible Part 61 program. ​

​

In addition, becoming a pilot requires extensive experience before beginning to work for an airline. Whether the pilot is flying domestically or internationally, they must build flight hours during their training before they can obtain the final license: an airline transport pilot license (ATP). The ATP license allows pilots the opportunity to work for an airline, carrying passengers during a flight. ​

​

Becoming a helicopter pilot is considered a professional qualification and a highly skilled profession. To fly professionally for payment or reward, you must hold a Commercial Pilot Licence - Helicopter (CPL(H)), which is a formal, regulated qualification issued by aviation authorities like the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) or FAA (Federal Aviation Administration).

 

[Steve]

As the forum hasn't allowed me in for a few days, allow me to go back and respond to a couple of things...

For avoidance of doubt I am only disparaging/casting nasturtiums at Andrew's time in the navy;

A helicopter pilot is still no more professional or qualified than I was and I'm old-fashioned about what I regard as a profession;

Service, especially public service, is not, in this country at least, confined to the military, so, yes, I served the public, as a nurse in the NHS for 3 decades, in a similar way to all the teachers, nurses and physios in my family. So I might argue that we have all been of more use to more folk than anyone in the royal family, as have a whole heap of people up and down the country over vast periods of time. But we don't have hagiographers.

Your "argument" that you can disparage one individual for serving an a particular role and not have it reflect on all other individuals doing exactly the same is ridiculous.

Your profession, that required considerable training, specialized study and certified qualifications, and which you actively worked at for three decades, was nursing. Piloting a helicopter, which requires considerable training, specialized study, and certified qualifications is a profession for those who work at it. You and the pilot both have professional qualifications in your chosen fields.

So now it's a question of who has been more useful, as opposed to a claim that the Mountbatten did nothing useful by serving in your military?

 

[novaphile]

That's a weird definition of trade vs profession.

I thought it was: "A profession requires a degree from a suitably accredited university."

 

[Steve]

That's a weird definition of trade vs profession.

I thought it was: "A profession requires a degree from a suitably accredited university."

Haven't heard that one before.

 

[arthwollipot]

I was taught that if you get paid for it, you're a professional. As opposed to an amateur. Yes, this means that trades are professions.

 

[Andy_Ross]

That's a weird definition of trade vs profession.

I thought it was: "A profession requires a degree from a suitably accredited university."

That's what I always got told by people with degrees from suitably accredited universities.

No matter what your experience, training or qualifications, without the degree you are just 'Tradesmen'

 

[novaphile]

That's what I always got told by people with degrees from suitably accredited universities.

No matter what your experience, training or qualifications, without the degree you are just 'Tradesmen'

It was also reflected in ranks in the public service here in Australia.

There were 'Professional Officers' i.e. PO1, PO2, PO3 etc. etc. etc.

Any 'Professional Officer' position required a relevant degree, and were Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc.

Any position that was not a PO position, meant that you could not require mandatory qualifications.

This caused a lot of problems when computer professionals were moved onto the regular 'clerical' scales.

 

[novaphile]

I was taught that if you get paid for it, you're a professional. As opposed to an amateur. Yes, this means that trades are professions.

I've never seen that definition used outside of sport.

 

[angrysoba]

As the forum hasn't allowed me in for a few days, allow me to go back and respond to a couple of things...

For avoidance of doubt I am only disparaging/casting nasturtiums at Andrew's time in the navy;

A helicopter pilot is still no more professional or qualified than I was and I'm old-fashioned about what I regard as a profession;

Service, especially public service, is not, in this country at least, confined to the military, so, yes, I served the public, as a nurse in the NHS for 3 decades, in a similar way to all the teachers, nurses and physios in my family. So I might argue that we have all been of more use to more folk than anyone in the royal family, as have a whole heap of people up and down the country over vast periods of time. But we don't have hagiographers.

I don't know why this is something important to you.

When we talk about Royals being workshy or useless, we mean those that just live off the public purse and seem to offer to function.

Whatever else may be true about Andrew, serving in the armed forces, in combat no less, is about as far removed from being useless as can be, especially if, and all accounts do suggest this, he was competent in his role.

There are plenty of other reasons to dislike him, by making this some kind of point of issue you are just trivializing the whole thing.

 

[Planigale]

I don't know why this is something important to you.

When we talk about Royals being workshy or useless, we mean those that just live off the public purse and seem to offer to function.

Whatever else may be true about Andrew, serving in the armed forces, in combat no less, is about as far removed from being useless as can be, especially if, and all accounts do suggest this, he was competent in his role.

There are plenty of other reasons to dislike him, by making this some kind of point of issue you are just trivializing the whole thing.

I agree. As an individual I suspect (having never met him) he is obnoxious. But being obnoxious is not the same as being criminal. Most teen age males are obnoxious. I do recognise that his naval service was genuine service, and despite his position as the spare, (as harry put it), he risked his life in the Falklands.

I feel slightly sorry for him that when he left the navy, there was no easy option for him. Many options open to us normal people weren't open to him.

If Andy_Ross's post is correct, Andrew M-W is a rapist, then, not a pedophile, so that makes it all OK, does it?

there is no suggestion that AM-W is a rapist. Giuffre did not claim AM-W forced her to have sex. Epstein may have 'encouraged' young women have sex with various persons including AM-W, but that does not mean that those who were sex partners were rapists.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I don't know why this is something important to you.

When we talk about Royals being workshy or useless, we mean those that just live off the public purse and seem to offer to function.

Whatever else may be true about Andrew, serving in the armed forces, in combat no less, is about as far removed from being useless as can be, especially if, and all accounts do suggest this, he was competent in his role.

There are plenty of other reasons to dislike him, by making this some kind of point of issue you are just trivializing the whole thing.

I think it's fair to say he performed a useful function while he served and that shouldn't be discounted, but since then he's been a waste of space and a massive drain on the public purse (for example he seemed to take perverse pleasure in doing everything possible to make his foreign trips as expensive as possible despite more cost effective, while still luxury, options being avaliable).

 

[smartcooky]

That's a weird definition of trade vs profession.

I thought it was: "A profession requires a degree from a suitably accredited university."

I guess you will have heard the expression "the oldest profession"? I wonder which accredited university is handing out degrees in that profession?

Also, if you get a degree in "Peace Studies" does that make you a professional peacenik?