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What did Democrats do wrong?

What did Democrats do wrong?

  • Didn't fight inflation enough.

    Votes: 13 14.9%
  • Didn't fight illegal immigration enough.

    Votes: 24 27.6%
  • Too much focus on abortion.

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Too much transgender stuff.

    Votes: 31 35.6%
  • America not ready for Progressive women leader.

    Votes: 31 35.6%
  • Should have kept Joe.

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Not enough focus on new jobs.

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Nothing, Trump cheated & played dirty!

    Votes: 16 18.4%
  • Didn't stop Gaza War.

    Votes: 9 10.3%
  • I can be Agent M.

    Votes: 6 6.9%

  • Total voters
    87
Sorry, I'm not bothering with your and Donal's feigned confusion here. I did not use the word "candidates" and rather pointedly and repeatedly explained that I was not talking about candidates, so your ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ game is going to sit on the table untouched.
Your comment was part of an ongoing conversation about campaign messaging, and specifically mentioned campaign strategy. Of course you were talking about candidates. Who else needs to hear about what is and is not good campaign strategy? Nobody is confused; you are simply trying to rewrite history.
 
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Which is the hardest thing about all of this because the conservatives don't have to appeal to ◊◊◊◊. We can see that right here on our own message board. Perfectly reasonable conservatives will throw everything out the window rather than admit their party has abandoned them. They just go further and further to the right. Meanwhile the Dems are trying to appeal to everyone and it ends up hurting them.

I think the thing they have to do first and foremost is stop this dumb ◊◊◊◊-ery of chasing conservative votes every election. ◊◊◊◊ those guys. Coalesce around a solid, progressive message and move forward. The same thing with the far-left. Stick around the AOC line, and the Dems will be fine.
Honestly, Democrats need someone with the charisma of Obama or Bill Clinton in the 90s. They barely eked out a win in 2020 because Trump's "◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ crazy" was fresh in everyone's mind. Hell, even Emily's Cat claims she voted for Biden in 2020, and she has put on a metric ◊◊◊◊ ton of muscle carrying Trump's water on the forum for the last decade or so.

By 2024, everyone forgot not being able to buy toilet paper or go to the clubs. They didn't give a ◊◊◊◊ about esoteric terms like "due process" or "democracy" because eggs were expensive. Trump also ratcheted up the bigotry towards LGBTQ+ people, which made folks like EC much more comfortable with him in charge despite knowing he'd be a disaster for women's rights and the economy and...<gestures at the whole world right now>

Yeah, chasing the conservative and the far-left votes ends up making the Democratic party look like Charlie Brown going for the football every four years. I honestly don't think there are enough "left of center but only as left as AOC" voters to overcome MAGA. You have to try to chase someone, but when the far-left is looking for any excuse to stay home and the moderates are voting based on the price of groceries, the football gets pulled away every single time. Dems need a feel good person who (ideally) can also do good ◊◊◊◊. I just don't know who the hell can appeal to the whole party right now, but then again Obama kind of came out of nowhere when he ran.
 
Your comment was part of an ongoing conversation about campaign messaging, and specifically mentioned campaign strategy. Of course you were talking about candidates. Who else needs to hear about what is and is not good campaign strategy? Nobody is confused; you are simply trying to rewrite history.
not entertaining this pretense. If you cannot read "I'm not talking about candidates" or "you are doing this" and understand that I am addressing a person and not candidates, then either you're arguing in extremely bad faith or you have the reading skills of a 3rd grader.
 
not entertaining this pretense. If you cannot read "I'm not talking about candidates" or "you are doing this" and understand that I am addressing a person and not candidates, then either you're arguing in extremely bad faith or you have the reading skills of a 3rd grader.

This is what you wrote:

"That is definitely a bad plan for winning elections. It would be great if the far left listened to your advice that this is a bad strategy."

Who, specifically, on the far left, needs to listen to Donal's advice? Obviously not candidates, since you said you aren't talking about those. Apparently, there's somebody else on the far left that needs advice on winning elections. Who?
 
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Yes yes, this is the answer for sure! The reason they lost last time was that too many progressives decided that Democrats weren't far enough left for them.

But if you got it wrong and there just aren't enough progressives to carry it by themselves, then ignoring moderate voters is a recipe for defeat. In the last election there was a significant shift towards the right as certain voters found Trump's policies more appealing, especially those related to the economy. Progressives won't woo these voters back with 'progressive' policies, they will do it by showing that they have better economic policies. This won't be easy because Republicans will pile on lies about how they improved the economy with their bold measures, while Democrats would destroy it. So Democrats have to get strong on the economy. It may be sad to think that most voters care more about their own pockets than anything else, but that's just reality.

Or perhaps I am wrong and deepening the divide is the best strategy. If so that's very sad, because the governing party should have the support of a wide range of voters. It's not a true democracy if only 33% wanted it. And if 'chasing conservative votes' loses votes then what does that say about those on the left? Not voting Democrat because the party isn't progressive enough for them is even sadder.
Let's not forget that social media campaigns and bots are a real thing with real influence. Conservatives are emboldened to film themselves calling people ethnic slurs in public and get GoFundMe campaigns big enough to retire on for doing so. Meanwhile, people on the left are more than happy to tell everyone not to vote for any Democrat because some obscure independent city councilperson in West Virginia who once ran as a Dem said something derogatory about a pride parade.

A huge portion of these people are being influenced by the extremism pushed on them by social media bot campaigns. It creates this divide you're talking about, where the right gets more tribal and the left gets more fractured over smaller and smaller purity tests. It's like that scene in "A Bug's Life" where the grasshoppers admit that if the ants ever joined together, the grasshoppers would be finished. The problem in real life is that a vocal chunk of the ants have fallen for the mis and disinformation campaigns and decided to link up with the grasshoppers to help squash any ant that isn't 100% pure, all the while pretending that they're just a guy on the internet, and their concerted campaign can't possibly have had the effect that it actually did.
 
This is what you wrote:

"That is definitely a bad plan for winning elections. It would be great if the far left listened to your advice that this is a bad strategy."

Who, specifically, on the far left, needs to listen to Donal's advice? Obviously not candidates, since you said you aren't talking about those. Apparently, there's somebody else on the far left that needs advice on winning elections. Who?
It's refreshing to see that you've finally almost caught up to the beginning of the conversation! Now, read a little bit further to see who I repeatedly said I was talking about!

You can do it!

I believe in you!
 
It's refreshing to see that you've finally almost caught up to the beginning of the conversation! Now, read a little bit further to see who I repeatedly said I was talking about!

You can do it!

I believe in you!
Donal didn't know who you were talking about at the time, and you refused to clarify when he asked you. Since then, you have steadfastly refused to name who you are talking about.

Just answer the question.
 
Donal didn't know who you were talking about at the time, and you refused to clarify when he asked you. Since then, you have steadfastly refused to name who you are talking about.

Just answer the question.
◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. Read what I wrote. I know you are capable of it. I know "you" and "far left voters" are not these esoteric concepts that are beyond you. Or at least they shouldn't be.
 
Honestly, Democrats need someone with the charisma of Obama or Bill Clinton in the 90s. They barely eked out a win in 2020 because Trump's "◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ crazy" was fresh in everyone's mind. Hell, even Emily's Cat claims she voted for Biden in 2020, and she has put on a metric ◊◊◊◊ ton of muscle carrying Trump's water on the forum for the last decade or so.
This goes to another point I frequently make. Stop worrying about whose "turn" it is. 1992 was supposed to be Jerry Brown's chance to get beaten by Bush. 2008 was supposed to be Hillary Clinton's year. Instead, we got 2 relatively young and new to the national stage candidates who brought a lot of energy and charisma. Politics has become a "strike while the iron is hot" game.

I'm not saying it *can't* be Gavin Newsome or one of the other establishment favorites. Just don't tell us 2 1/2 years out that it *has* to be Newsome. If he goes out and lights the campaign trail on fire and energizes voters, fine. Just don't anoint anyone and make the primaries their victory lap.
By 2024, everyone forgot not being able to buy toilet paper or go to the clubs. They didn't give a ◊◊◊◊ about esoteric terms like "due process" or "democracy" because eggs were expensive. Trump also ratcheted up the bigotry towards LGBTQ+ people, which made folks like EC much more comfortable with him in charge despite knowing he'd be a disaster for women's rights and the economy and...<gestures at the whole world right now>
Yes, more or less about vibes. Granted, it didn't help the Biden administration tried to memory hole COVID but that's another discussion.
Yeah, chasing the conservative and the far-left votes ends up making the Democratic party look like Charlie Brown going for the football every four years. I honestly don't think there are enough "left of center but only as left as AOC" voters to overcome MAGA. You have to try to chase someone, but when the far-left is looking for any excuse to stay home and the moderates are voting based on the price of groceries, the football gets pulled away every single time. Dems need a feel good person who (ideally) can also do good ◊◊◊◊. I just don't know who the hell can appeal to the whole party right now, but then again Obama kind of came out of nowhere when he ran.
They don't even chase far left votes because the US does not have any "far left" to think of. Chasing votes in general is a stupid idea.

The reality is, people are not honest with themselves, much less with pollsters. Trying to jump at any little issue you think will turn them is pointless. Stop testing the winds and taking temperatures every day. Have an actual platform, believe in it, sell it to the voters, and make them believe you'll make their lives better.
 
Yes yes, this is the answer for sure! The reason they lost last time was that too many progressives decided that Democrats weren't far enough left for them.

Uhm, yeah that was definitely part of it. There were a lot of complaints of Kamala taking the stage with Liz Cheney, and trying extremely hard to appeal to the "disenfranchised right-wing voter". Plenty of news stories that covered it if you cared to look them up. The voter turn out on the left was extremely low.
But if you got it wrong and there just aren't enough progressives to carry it by themselves, then ignoring moderate voters is a recipe for defeat.

When did I say anything about the moderate vote? I said conservative. Conservative != moderate. Chasing the moderate or independent vote is perfectly fine and something I encourage the left to do, especially on topics like the economy. That only makes sense.
In the last election there was a significant shift towards the right as certain voters found Trump's policies more appealing, especially those related to the economy.

Which is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ dumb as hell since he doesn't have any policies. He didn't then and he doesn't now. He never actually voiced any pen to paper policies.
Progressives won't woo these voters back with 'progressive' policies, they will do it by showing that they have better economic policies. This won't be easy because Republicans will pile on lies about how they improved the economy with their bold measures, while Democrats would destroy it. So Democrats have to get strong on the economy. It may be sad to think that most voters care more about their own pockets than anything else, but that's just reality.

Right, which is easy for the Democrats to do if they just show the facts. The economy performs better under Democratic administrations and that's just reality.
Or perhaps I am wrong and deepening the divide is the best strategy.

Why is my suggestion of coalescing behind progressive policies rather than trying to appeal to conservative voters "deepening the divide", exactly? I'm genuinely curious about that? Further more, why the ◊◊◊◊ is it always the Dems job to bridge the divide? It never ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ works for them but they always seem to get the blame no matter how hard they try, so why ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ try anymore? They're going to get ◊◊◊◊ on for it anyway. We know that because they do right now. Who ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cares? This is the dumbest argument that comes up during this conversation. The Dems have to be the perfect party or else everything they do is the problem.
If so that's very sad, because the governing party should have the support of a wide range of voters.

Yet we've got an administration that controls all 3 branches of the government that repeatedly says most democrats should be hung, or shot, or deported, or their vote should be suppressed or they should be in jail, or any other myriad of ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up punishments yet here you are in the "what did democrats do wrong" thread acting like the Dems are the ones excluding voters.
It's not a true democracy if only 33% wanted it.

Lol
And if 'chasing conservative votes' loses votes then what does that say about those on the left?

Chasing conservative votes did lose votes. That's why Kamala lost the last election, if you ask me. What it says about those on the left is that they don't like conservative policies. I mean, ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ duh.
Not voting Democrat because the party isn't progressive enough for them is even sadder.

Sure it is Roger, sure it is. This sentence doesn't even make any ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ sense.
 
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◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. Read what I wrote. I know you are capable of it. I know "you" and "far left voters" are not these esoteric concepts that are beyond you. Or at least they shouldn't be.
So we should give advice on how to campaign to *voters*?
 
So we should give advice on how to campaign to *voters*?
Yes. Obviously. In 2024, and now, we have voters running around screaming about "DINOs" and how much they hate members of their party and all the other ◊◊◊◊ that Donal said was bad. These voters are campaigning for MAGA, despite claiming to be progressives. Apparently this plain and obvious fact needs to be explained at an elementary school level to the people doing this.

As I have repeatedly and plainly pointed out, and as you and he full well understood, this "but I'm just a guy on the internet, and my many repeated and loud efforts to convince people that the Dems are bad can not be expected to have the effect I am attempting to cause" is a total schtick.

When you are attempting to influence the discourse, you don't get to play the "innocent bystander" card the moment someone points out the wreckage your rhetoric helped create. Come now, this feigned confusion is beneath you.
 
Yes. Obviously. In 2024, and now, we have voters running around screaming about "DINOs" and how much they hate members of their party and all the other ◊◊◊◊ that Donal said was bad. These voters are campaigning for MAGA, despite claiming to be progressives. Apparently this plain and obvious fact needs to be explained at an elementary school level to the people doing this.
Seems like Democrat candidates missed some critical opportunities to explain these things to voters.
 
Seems like Democrat candidates missed some critical opportunities to explain these things to voters.
Meh, the type of people doing this would then have used that explanation as an excuse not to vote for Dem candidates. You know, like the pearl-clutching about the "basket of deplorables" comment. Looking at the results, Clinton seems to have ballparked far too low on how many Trump supporters were ◊◊◊◊ bags, actually. (apparently autocensor missed that)

No, the candidates and the Dem leadership ain't reading this thread to learn how to reach people. The people reading this thread are the ones being influenced by the noise being made here. When you have "progressives" spending 24/7 trashing the only viable alternative to MAGA, they are doing the ground work for the GOP. They're the ones trying to convince people to stay home or cast a protest vote while the world burns. They're the ones who both need to hear this, and the only ones who possibly will. We shouldn't need a candidate to explain the stakes to us when the stakes are currently stripping away rights in real time.
 
Yes. Obviously. In 2024, and now, we have voters running around screaming about "DINOs" and how much they hate members of their party and all the other ◊◊◊◊ that Donal said was bad. These voters are campaigning for MAGA, despite claiming to be progressives. Apparently this plain and obvious fact needs to be explained at an elementary school level to the people doing this.

As I have repeatedly and plainly pointed out, and as you and he full well understood, this "but I'm just a guy on the internet, and my many repeated and loud efforts to convince people that the Dems are bad can not be expected to have the effect I am attempting to cause" is a total schtick.

When you are attempting to influence the discourse, you don't get to play the "innocent bystander" card the moment someone points out the wreckage your rhetoric helped create. Come now, this feigned confusion is beneath you.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

I suppose that's one way of responding to the observation that many liberal voters don't care for what the Democratic Party was offering: tell those voters they're bad for voicing their honest opinions. Let's dissolve the people and elect a new one!

Now that I understand what you're talking about: Nah, hard pass.
 
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Even after their efforts helped elect Trump, and the mechanics of how that happened are explained, some self proclaimed progressives still want to keep helping MAGA destroy any hope of achieving progressive goals. If the goal is to prevent a total Republican stranglehold on all three branches of government, then spending every waking hour attacking the only opponents they have is obviously counterproductive. If the goal is to elect MAGA, keep doing what you're doing.
 
It would appear you yourself don't actually know what you have claimed, in writing, within this very thread.



Damage estimates range from $1.5 million to $30 million.

That's very little when you compare it to the estimated $300 million cost of rebuilding the East Wing of the White House, but I doubt whether you would laugh off $1.5 million dollars of damage to your own personal property. On the other hand, I have learned not to be surprised by what you say about such things.
The *cost* of damage isn't the same as the *volume* of damage. If a piece of art is damaged and it costs $10M to repair, that's still only a single item damaged. On the other hand, an apartment building could be burned to the ground that the collective value of damage might be only $10M... but that a lot more impactful, wouldn't you say?
 
Geez, give the poor tourists a break. I mean, sure, in the heat of the moment, you poop on the floor and smear it on the walls - like everyone gets a little caught up in the moment and all - and next thing you know some liberal pussy is getting all up in your grille. And why single out the vandals anyway? What about those Huns and Visigoths?
Yep, because poop on the floor is clearly much, much, much worse than setting a building on fire with people locked inside it.
 
If a person is marching under the banner of Hamas, and is actually chanting about "destroying israel", then I am willing to say they support terrorism against israel.

(Note: I am able to differentiate people who actually support Hamas and their terrorist actions, and those who are protesting on behalf of the palestinians because they think Israel is being heavy-handed in their dealings with Gaza and the west bank.)

So back to the Trump... do you honestly think someone who sees someone carrying a nazi flag and says "I will protest with them" is not a nazi? Do you honestly think a person doesn't know what the swastika meant? That they somehow joined the charleton protests ironically?
Do you honestly think that someone who sees someone carrying a hamas flag and chanting for global intifada and says "I will protest with them" is not a terrorist?
 

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