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Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

A delightful holiday festival of lies! (I especially enjoy the inclusion of the debunked, grainy, sped-up video snippet.) Makes your blood boil.

No serious investigation and determined analysis, however long it takes, before issuing a report. Nope, just a rapid-response rush to the propaganda podium. Does that spunky mouthpiece get paid by the word, I wonder? Don’t spend it all in one place.
Exactly! It is one thing for political pundits to start gobbing off about what happened, but for the president, vice-president, and all the leadership of the Department of Homeland Security to do this without any investigation is insane.
 
The moment the officers told her to exit she was legally obligated to step out.
Asked and answered—not necessarily.

She floored the vehicle instead.
Before or after she was shot in the face?

That's what qualifies as "fleeing and evading a lawful order" - a felony in the eyes of the law.
Asked and answered—false.

The only question that is relevant for the rest is whether the officer had a reasonable belief that he was in imminent risk of injury or death.
Asked and answered—obviated by his disobedience to regulation.

It's not about the driver's intent.
Mens rea is absolutely essential to determining such things as forcibility.

You can keep making this a political issue if you want. But at the end of the day, that's not how interpretation of the law works.
You don't know the law.
 
If you don't mind me asking, why manslaughter and not murder?
It's the easiest to prove given the evidence. But under Minnesota statute, 3rd degree murder might fit. But as I've said many times, I'm told by lawyers that the various shades of homicide are the hardest for lay people to get. So I won't stake a firm claim on any particular charge. However, 1st degree murder requiring premeditation really doesn't fit the facts. Yes, I have listened to the arguments about how the officer freed up his gun hand, but that's kind of shaky. All that said, Minnesota (like most states) follows the lesser-included offense doctrine that allows a jury to convict on a lesser degree of the charged offense.
 
It's the easiest to prove given the evidence. But under Minnesota statute, 3rd degree murder might fit. But as I've said many times, I'm told by lawyers that the various shades of homicide are the hardest for lay people to get. So I won't stake a firm claim on any particular charge. However, 1st degree murder requiring premeditation really doesn't fit the facts. Yes, I have listened to the arguments about how the officer freed up his gun hand, but that's kind of shaky. All that said, Minnesota (like most states) follows the lesser-included offense doctrine that allows a jury to convict on a lesser degree of the charged offense.
Agreed, my initial reaction to this after viewing all the videos was "classic manslaughter" The analogy given to all first year law students (at least in my ancient days) is a husband walking in on his wife who is cheating with another man, so he kills her in rage. Given his previous incident in being dragged by a vehicle, it seems likely that the immediate trigger for him was being struck (incidentally or not) by the vehicle. That triggered the reaction, and it was a quick emotional one. As you pointed out, a prosecutor could point out he had his gun already in hand when the wife was goading him, so that implies a bit more premeditation, but given all the other factors, like her already being in the middle of the road and defying their commands, as you said a lesser charge would be easier for people to accept.
 
It's the easiest to prove given the evidence. But under Minnesota statute, 3rd degree murder might fit. But as I've said many times, I'm told by lawyers that the various shades of homicide are the hardest for lay people to get. So I won't stake a firm claim on any particular charge. However, 1st degree murder requiring premeditation really doesn't fit the facts. Yes, I have listened to the arguments about how the officer freed up his gun hand, but that's kind of shaky. All that said, Minnesota (like most states) follows the lesser-included offense doctrine that allows a jury to convict on a lesser degree of the charged offense.
Thanks.
 
Only because this corrupt administration has poisoned the well.

It was an execution, and it's too bad the icehole will never be held accountable for it.

AIUI there's no statute of limitations on murder, so even if the Trump administration prevents charges being brought he could still be held accountable once the current madness is over. Assuming it ever is.
 
AIUI there's no statute of limitations on murder, so even if the Trump administration prevents charges being brought he could still be held accountable once the current madness is over. Assuming it ever is.
How would double jeopardy work? Does bringing a case through federal courts prevent being tried for the same acts in a state court?
 
Genuine Presidential Gibberish

Reporter: How do you define absolute immunity? What does that mean?

Trump: Well, everyone's seen it. And the woman was very violent…

Reporter: Absolute immunity. How would you define that?

Trump: Well, I'm going to let the people define it. But immunity, you know what immunity what knows means as well as I do.

 
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Most of us are not completely fine with it. Some of us are also keenly aware though (not enough of us I worry) that the play is to provoke massive violent uprisings so the government can justify martial law and seizing absolute power, something that I highly suspected was going to happen on J6.
To be fair you don't have much choice. It's not like the Democrats are offering anything to fight for.
 
You're correct. It was her alleged obstruction of ICE enforcement that prompted the detainment order. Blocking roads, beeping horns, anything that would slow or delay their work to detain the subject of their original warrant. Which I've covered voluminously already.


The moment the officers told her to exit she was legally obligated to step out.
She floored the vehicle instead. That's what qualifies as "fleeing and evading a lawful order" - a felony in the eyes of the law.
The only question that is relevant for the rest is whether the officer had a reasonable belief that he was in imminent risk of injury or death.
It's not about the driver's intent.

You can keep making this a political issue if you want. But at the end of the day, that's not how interpretation of the law works.
I see, so you admit there is no evidence, only allegations used to justify their interactions with her, after the fact.

JayUtah already covered this but you appear to be ignoring it, it's not a lawful order just because they are ICE and gave her an order. They don't have any legal right to give her an order unless she is impeding them or the subject of their investigation.

I'm sorry, but I didn't realize politics was off limits for this issue. So I guess we're not allowed to challenge anything that a politician says and ignore the fact that these are federal officers under control of a government that is under control of a political party. I love how this argument always comes up when it's clear one side of the aisle is WRONG.
 
Noem: "Every single thing I've said has been factual about what's been going on in Minneapolis, in Minnesota ... we've surged HSI there specific to focus on sex trafficking and child trafficking. It's so prevalent in Minnesota. It's horrific ... we're gonna keep hundreds of HSI officers there to continue to protect those children."

 
"They were being meanies to us ALL DAY so by 9:37am we had grown tired of this and just had to shoot her". - Irrelevant even if it's true that they were being meanies to them. But let's see the evidence of said meanness...I doubt we ever will.

In the police academy (in 1982) we were taught “There is no offense called “Contempt of Cop’. We had role playing exercises where all sorts of verbal abuse was heaped on us and we were trained to just take it.

Stipulated that not all officers receive this training, nor that it is always effective. The caricature of Cartman yelling “Respect my authority!” Is not without some basis in reality. And further stipulated that current ICE recruits are very unlikely to have been exposed to such training.
 
Q: "Do you believe that deadly force was necessary?"

Trump: "It was highly disrespectful of law enforcement. The woman and her friend were highly disrespectful of law enforcement…Law enforcement should not be in a position where they have to put up with this stuff."

Disrespectful. Highly disrespectful. Therefore deadly force was necessary.

One of the henchmen will be along shortly to sound as if they're addressing whatever Trump intended to say, but without doing so.
 

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