The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[LondonJohn]

No, it hasn't, it's just pure hazing. They were SOLAS compliant auto-activated ones (see the HAMMAR device tha auto-releases them in six-feet of water).



View attachment 66578

Gloved hand of Rockwater diver clutching the Hammar device.


View attachment 66579

I am not going to discuss this any further unless there is NEW information.

LOL the joy of you showing a diagram of the auto-release mechanism in your attempt to prove that these EPIRBs were auto-activation!

You won't hear any complaining from me though if you follow through on your commitment not to discuss this matter any further.

 

[Mojo]

... that it might have been a box.

It might have been a shoebox full of size-nine chukka boots, although that would probably have immediately evolved into something with far longer arms, but that was capable of breathing seawater.

 

[Mojo]

I am not going to discuss this any further unless there is NEW information.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Oh dear. So, so wrong. The bow visor fell off because the bottom lock failed [....]

Then it is a pity the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it.

As we know, the visor has been recovered and we know there is no evidence whatever of any explosives being used. So that fantasy is a dead end.

Wikipedia has a photograph of the recovered bow visor sitting in a hangar.

If I were a triple niner, it might be easier for me to understand how the visor ended up in that hangar after "the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it. "

 

[JesseCuster]

Wikipedia has a photograph of the recovered bow visor sitting in a hangar.

If I were a triple niner, it might be easier for me to understand how the visor ended up in that hangar after "the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it. "

She means the Atlantic lock was thrown back into the sea. Vixen has gotten the entire bow visor and the Atlantic lock confused before, she previously mistakenly said the the bow visor weighed 15kg which was actually the weight of the Atlantic lock.

She's very easily confused about basic facts related to the Estonia and its sinking, we should go easy on her.

 

[Vixen]

Was he supposed to claim it's a bomb without proper examination?

Here's what Braidwood wrote in his report, Part 6. Note: the original text is a blurry photocopy so may have some strange spellings.

119

PART 6

INVESTIGATION DETAILS

THE SUSPECT PACKAGE

Suspicious package found near the port hydraulic side-lock

Several photos of a suspicious cube shaped package have been obtained from video surveys From details of the photos, it can be established that the package is positioned on the port side of the ship's forward bulkhead, next to the hydraulic side-lock access. It is next to several hawsers. The package appears to be sitting on top of nothing wider than the cube itself. This is probably a magnet, as the block is being held up against a metal surface after the ship had sunk and rolled over to starboard The colour photos show that both the base and the cube are a light orange shade

Estimated size

2 Because of the perspectives of the bulkhead and bow ramp frames it is not possible to make an accurate assessment of the size of the block from the photos However, it can be estimated that the sides are no longer than 200man and no shorter Than 100mm

Possibility of an explosive device

3 I have considered whether this suspect package could have been an explosive device even if the sides of the cube were no longer than 100min - the smallest estimate. This is the size deliberately used in the background notes given earlier These explained how a block of this size would indeed have enough space to hold all the essential components of a small explosive charge of one to two kilograms.

120 ESTONIA sprängdes!

ESTONIA INVESTIGATION REPORT by BH L. Braidwood, MBIM. MIEXPE

INVESTIGATION DETAILS

IN

THE SUSPECT PACKAGE

Possibility of an explosive device (Continued)

4. The notes also explained that the timer and firing mechanism would have been surrounded by plastic explosive, moulded into a cube shape by hand, in exactly the same way as plasticene. In the photos from the ROV video, the outside surface of the cube looks uneven as if it might have been moulded by hand rather than having sharp "manufactured" edges and surfaces.

Placing and arming the device

5. Finding such a device near the side-locks suggests an attempt to damage the ship at a particularly vulnerable position. However, in laser video surveys of the same area, the package has disappeared. When or how the device got there must remain a matter of conjecture. It can only be emphasised that the act of placing and arming such a charge takes only a few seconds as the firing time will have been set beforehand.. A determined saboteur might well decide to increase his possibility of success by placing more charges, at similar vulnerable points elsewhere on the ship

CONCLUSION

6 On a balance of probabilities, I have concluded that the suspect package could have been an explosive device containing between one and three kilograms of plastic explosive

from ESTONIA, Sven Anér

 

[Vixen]

Wikipedia has a photograph of the recovered bow visor sitting in a hangar.

If I were a triple niner, it might be easier for me to understand how the visor ended up in that hangar after "the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it. "

We are talking about the Atlantic Lock, the accessory lock at the bottom.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Here's what Braidwood wrote in his report, Part 6. Note: the original text is a blurry photocopy so may have some strange spellings.

119

PART 6

INVESTIGATION DETAILS

THE SUSPECT PACKAGE

Suspicious package found near the port hydraulic side-lock

Several photos of a suspicious cube shaped package have been obtained from video surveys From details of the photos, it can be established that the package is positioned on the port side of the ship's forward bulkhead, next to the hydraulic side-lock access. It is next to several hawsers. The package appears to be sitting on top of nothing wider than the cube itself. This is probably a magnet, as the block is being held up against a metal surface after the ship had sunk and rolled over to starboard The colour photos show that both the base and the cube are a light orange shade

Estimated size

2 Because of the perspectives of the bulkhead and bow ramp frames it is not possible to make an accurate assessment of the size of the block from the photos However, it can be estimated that the sides are no longer than 200man and no shorter Than 100mm

Possibility of an explosive device

3 I have considered whether this suspect package could have been an explosive device even if the sides of the cube were no longer than 100min - the smallest estimate. This is the size deliberately used in the background notes given earlier These explained how a block of this size would indeed have enough space to hold all the essential components of a small explosive charge of one to two kilograms.

120 ESTONIA sprängdes!

ESTONIA INVESTIGATION REPORT by BH L. Braidwood, MBIM. MIEXPE

INVESTIGATION DETAILS

IN

THE SUSPECT PACKAGE

Possibility of an explosive device (Continued)

4. The notes also explained that the timer and firing mechanism would have been surrounded by plastic explosive, moulded into a cube shape by hand, in exactly the same way as plasticene. In the photos from the ROV video, the outside surface of the cube looks uneven as if it might have been moulded by hand rather than having sharp "manufactured" edges and surfaces.

Placing and arming the device

5. Finding such a device near the side-locks suggests an attempt to damage the ship at a particularly vulnerable position. However, in laser video surveys of the same area, the package has disappeared. When or how the device got there must remain a matter of conjecture. It can only be emphasised that the act of placing and arming such a charge takes only a few seconds as the firing time will have been set beforehand.. A determined saboteur might well decide to increase his possibility of success by placing more charges, at similar vulnerable points elsewhere on the ship

CONCLUSION

6 On a balance of probabilities, I have concluded that the suspect package could have been an explosive device containing between one and three kilograms of plastic explosive

from ESTONIA, Sven Anér

ha ha

 

[Mojo]

She means the Atlantic lock was thrown back into the sea. Vixen has gotten the entire bow visor and the Atlantic lock confused before, she previously mistakenly said the the bow visor weighed 15kg which was actually the weight of the Atlantic lock.

She had to invent a 54,985kg "casing" for the 15kg visor in order to avoid admitting that she had made a mistake

 

[Mojo]

On a balance of probabilities, I have concluded that the suspect package could have been an explosive device containing between one and three kilograms of plastic explosive

Or it could have been something else entirely.

 

[Steve]

May I say I find your imagery of violence towards myself repugnant.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

We are talking about the Atlantic Lock, the accessory lock at the bottom.

No. You responded to @LondonJohn, who was quite explicitly talking about the bow visor and correcting your tale of why that bow visor fell off. You actually quoted @LondonJohn's comments about the bow visor immediately above your laughable claim that "Then it is a pity the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it."

I was careful to quote that context when I lampooned your post. Which means you not only failed to read @LondonJohn's remarks with any care at all, you also failed to read what I wrote with any care at all.

Which surprises nobody. Your reading comprehension is what we should expect from a soi-dissant triple niner.

 

[GlennB]

We are talking about the Atlantic Lock, the accessory lock at the bottom.

I swear you're more slippery than an oily eel.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

NVM

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I am not going to discuss this any further unless there is NEW information.

Promise?

 

[Vixen]

She had to invent a 54,985kg "casing" for the 15kg visor in order to avoid admitting that she had made a mistake

I am not given to 'inventing'. Judging others by your own standards?

 

[Vixen]

I swear you're more slippery than an oily eel.

I am not given to being slippery, oily or eel-like.

 

[Vixen]

No. You responded to @LondonJohn, who was quite explicitly talking about the bow visor and correcting your tale of why that bow visor fell off. You actually quoted @LondonJohn's comments about the bow visor immediately above your laughable claim that "Then it is a pity the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it."

I was careful to quote that context when I lampooned your post. Which means you not only failed to read @LondonJohn's remarks with any care at all, you also failed to read what I wrote with any care at all.

Which surprises nobody. Your reading comprehension is what we should expect from a soi-dissant triple niner.

Er, it would be a bit difficult to toss a bow visor out of a small speedboat.

 

[Mojo]

I am not given to 'inventing'. Judging others by your own standards?

If you can't remember doing it, just follow the link. Everyone else can.

 

[Vixen]

No. You responded to @LondonJohn, who was quite explicitly talking about the bow visor and correcting your tale of why that bow visor fell off. You actually quoted @LondonJohn's comments about the bow visor immediately above your laughable claim that "Then it is a pity the Swedish investigators immediately threw it back into the sea having found it."

I was careful to quote that context when I lampooned your post. Which means you not only failed to read @LondonJohn's remarks with any care at all, you also failed to read what I wrote with any care at all.

Which surprises nobody. Your reading comprehension is what we should expect from a soi-dissant triple niner.

He was definitely referrng to 'the bottom lock failing'. To which I responded, "We are talking about the Atlantic Lock, the accessory lock at the bottom." Which part did you think was thrown back in the water?