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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
I am not given to deception.
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You're certainly not very good at it.
Vixen said:
You had already been given the document.
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You quoted part of it, but failed to quote the paragraph that said it sank completely within 13 minutes of reaching a list of around 90 degrees. You know, the one that contradicted the claim you were supposed to be supporting.

Please quote the JAIC saying that the Estonia "floated on its superstructure", "floated on a 90° list", or even "was functioning on a 90° list", and provide a precise and accurate citation for the source, and if possible a link.
 
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W.D.Clinger said:
To further the ongoing intellectual debate, let's try to take that plan seriously.


Okay, guys, listen up and synchronize your watches. Here's what we're gonna do:
  • At precisely 12:59, we're gonna take down all communications. At precisely 01:54, we're gonna restore those communications.
  • We're gonna get the ship's officers to time its progress so the ship is just entering international waters when we take down the communications.
  • We're gonna force the Swedes to say 01:00 in the local time zone corresponds to Swedish midnight.
  • We're gonna bang on the ship so any survivors will remember hearing those bangs.
  • We're gonna get the ship to list so violently that it can try to right itself a couple of times before we proceed to the next part of our plan.
  • We're gonna make sure the Third Captain has a hand held device he can use to call MAYDAY after we've brought down all of the communications that would normally be used to call MAYDAY.
  • We're gonna ask the Third Captain not to tell anyone what the Captain is doing.
  • We're gonna spread a false rumor that the EPIRBs failed to initiate.
  • We're gonna get a truck driver to tell the Swedish coastguards that something went wrong.
  • At precisely 1:22, 23 minutes after we took down all communications and 32 minutes before we bring those communications back up, we're gonna get the MS Estonia's third mate to confirm that the ship had sent a distress signal.
  • To reward the third mate for his service, we're gonna make sure he dies in the accident.
  • We're gonna make sure at least some of the life rafts are fully kitted out; to accomplish that, we may have to bribe someone to make sure the life rafts are in their proper condition before the ship sails.
  • We're gonna make sure Sillaste, Linde, and Treu are on a life raft before 1:22.
  • We're gonna make sure Linde tells investigators he was on the life raft at 1:24.
  • We're gonna get Linde to say the bow ramp was closed because all the indicator lamps were green.
  • When experts point out that the harbour securing indicator lamp would have been red, because the ship was no longer in the harbour, we're gonna have the professor on our payroll say a careful boatswain always closed the harbour securing mechanism once the ship got out to sea, just so none of the indicator lamps would be red.
  • When video proves the harbor securing lamp was red, we're gonna have that professor keep his mouth shut.
  • We're gonna have Sillaste say the bow ramp was closed,
  • even though he and Treu were up to their knees in the water they saw coming through the ramp.
  • We're gonna make sure someone remembers seeing Able Seaman Silver Linde in the bar.
  • We're gonna make sure Silver Linde sees Captain Andresson going to the bridge.
  • We're gonna make sure it takes exactly 35 MINUTES for the ship to sink after its bow visor comes loose.
  • As stated earlier, we're gonna make sure communications are restored at 01:54.
  • After the sinking, we're gonna hafta have a couple of ships arrive at the scene to confirm the sinking. (Note to review panel: Better put Sargeant Snorkel on this right away.)
  • We're gonna make sure a lot of the passengers and crew are never accounted for.
  • To cover our tracks, we're going to put Captain Piht on a list of survivors before we make him disappear.
  • We're gonna have Dick Cheney get US firm Rockwater to search Piht's room for a briefcase that belongs to an arms dealer and presumably contains software disguised as submarine aerospace munitions. (Note to review panel: This aspect of the plan might need more work.)
As @Vixen has demonstrated, someone might take that plan seriously and regard it as a shining example of military precision.

I cannot.
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Actually, Tammes getting through on his walkie talkie wasn't part of the plan. Europa heard him by pure accident, had to turn it up to maximum to even hear him. Probably not even Tammes' first attempt to get through.
 
Vixen said:
The guy was a freaking Royal Navy expert. Taught the topic at Naval Academy. Endorsed by Fellowes.
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And from such an expert I would expect a specific, positive identification such as, “That’s an XYZ Type Triple-Niner satchel charge,” along with pictures to confirm. I can do that with any of the equipment I recognize from my expertise. What he gave us was a vague idea that it’s possibly some kind of bomb. And a patently inaccurate drawing.
 
Vixen said:
By your account, Meister, Kurm, Rabe, Bemis, Braidwood, Hummel, Amdahl, Evertsson, Andersson, Westermann, et al, are all blithering idiots who failed to consult you first.
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I made no such claim. However I have pointed out their errors and lies numerous times for you, as well as the ways you are misinterpreting or misusing their claims.
 
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JayUtah said:
And from such an expert I would expect a specific, positive identification such as, “That’s an XYZ Type Triple-Niner satchel charge,” along with pictures to confirm. I can do that with any of the equipment I recognize from my expertise. What he gave us was a vague idea that it’s possibly some kind of bomb. And a patently inaccurate drawing.
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It was a photo from Rockwater's own video (later edited out).
 
Vixen said:
It was a photo from Rockwater's own video (later edited out).
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I mean other photos of the alleged bomb type so we can also recognize it as a bomb.

The drawing I mentioned was his drawing of the hole, which bears no resemblance to the actual hole. He drew it in a way that supported his desire to claim it was caused by a bomb.
 
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This has become far too silly. I'm out.

For a week, at least.

Hopefully.

Possibly.

Probably not, though. On the plus side, Jay, Andy and others have taught me a whole bunch of stuff about physics and boat jobs and systems and ◊◊◊◊, some of which I partly understood, and might even remember for a bit.

@Vixen , Please don't worry about answering any outstanding questions i have put to you. I never expected a coherent or relevant response: my repeated asking was nothing but a rhetorical device intended to spotlight your disingenuous, dishonest and/or ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ insane approach to facts, and very obvious selective blindness.
 
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