The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
From the same EFD site:
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Thank you, at least this contains something relevant. Why did you earlier post something else from EFD and newspaper reports that did not say what you were asked for? You have an amazing habit (it's hard to know if it's caused by dishonesty or incompetence) of being asked for evidence and then repeatedly posting links and text that don't contain any of the evidence you were asked. You have also been criticised dozens (or maybe hundreds) of times for this egregious debating behaviour and have never once denied that you do in fact repeatedly post links or text which in no way provide the evidence being asked for. You've made no attempt (and will make no attempt) to explain why you actually posted the 2 previous blocks of text as evidence for your claim.

Anyway, that does not say that all such vessels were to be "inspected immediately".
 
Vixen said:
Then as an expert in London you should know that cockney slang consists of more than just the rhyming type; extensive backslang, for example. As an aside, as for Stanley Unwin getting his Unwinese from his Bethnal Green-born mother, given she came out with 'falloloping' and hurting her 'kneeclabbers', and the fact her parents are listed as 'unknown' but née 'Brand' (unlike his father who is generations English), that indicates to me she was second generation cockney, and as with so many who arrived in the East End, was possibly a newcomer, using the half-remembered words of her parents or grandparents, which given the sheer number of syllables - 'falloloping'; 'kneeclabbers' - indicates a germanic language origin, which together with the name, 'Brand' indicates to me a Swedish or Danish origin. Entirely within keeping of cockney slang if others pick it up and start using it, too.
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If you managed to read the whole page you probably got that from, you'd notice that her father's name is given, in census and marriage records, as John Eduard Brand. "Eduard" is likely to be German or Dutch in origin. Anyway, wouldn't that make her first generation, not second?

Regardless, it still doesn't support your irrelevant assertion that Stanley Unwin was an expert on slang; even if he were, that doesn't make "kimo sabi" cockney slang, rhyming or not.
 
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zooterkin said:
If you managed to read the whole page you probably got that from, you'd notice that her father's name is given, in census and marriage records, as John Eduard Brand. "Eduard" is likely to be German or Dutch in origin. Anyway, wouldn't that make her first generation, not second?

Regardless, it still doesn't support your irrelevant assertion that Stanley Unwin was an expert on slang; even if he were, that doesn't make "kimo sabi" cockney slang, rhyming or not.
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I didn't say he was 'an expert on slang' [ed. OK, I see the context now]. Google seems to throw up 'Huguenot' when his mother's maiden name is plugged in (although goodness knows why) and these did make up a sizeable portion of Eastenders (protestant refugees from Europe).
 
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Axxman300 said:
You are, and the rest of the post confirms this.


And?


Something all leaders do. Part of the job.


And this is bad how, exactly?

What were his "connections" to the CIA, exactly? Did he call the Swedish Desk up and say, "Hey, you guys need another asset in Swedish government?". Or in his travels, and social interactions did he meet "US Embassy Staff"? Bildt is a political science major, many CIA have BAs in political science, international affairs, and international law. In college, those folks like to mingle, socially. Some would say they're party animals. Either way, people in political science and international affairs constantly travel to conferences worldwide to keep up with our changing world environments, physical, and political. Does CIA attend these conferences? Yup, as does every other intelligence service worth their salt.

And I know I'll get in trouble with this, but the Russians are the bad guys, and Sweden is stuck between them and the west. Sweden's national security is mostly aligned with US national security.


Maybe, maybe not. The public reaction would have been along the lines of, "Why are you guys wasting time with crappy military hardware?"


No, this is where you are wrong. Bildt would have received advice, not instructions. And I'm sure MI-6 wishes it could tell the PM what to do.
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No, there was no judgmental element at all. Carl Bildt then was someone with leadership skills and decision-making ability. Prime Ministers don't usually have all that much powers when it comes to international affairs.
 
Vixen said:
I didn't say he was 'an expert on slang'. Google seems to throw up 'Huguenot' when his mother's maiden name is plugged in (although goodness knows why) and these did make up a sizeable portion of Eastenders (protestant refugees from Europe).
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Curious. From google -

Q: brand surname origin

A: The surname "Brand" has several origins, primarily deriving from Germanic and Old Norse words for "sword" or "fire".

eta: grok agrees
 
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Vixen said:
I didn't say he was 'an expert on slang' [ed. OK, I see the context now].
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The context is that you said that someone was "an expert on slang. Bit like the guy who does Ogden Nut's Gone Flake for the Small Faces". The guy who narrated Ogdens' Nut Gone Flake was Stanley Unwin, so yes, you said he was an expert on slang.
 
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Vixen said:
What do you mean 'support the claim'? Someone asked a question and I provided an answer. The truth doesn't stop being the truth just because you don't like it.
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Indeed. Please provide a truthful answer to this question. You said:
Vixen said:
I simply demonstrated that of course it's possible to calculate likely impact on seabed, given the specified dimensions.
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Is this post that demonstration?
Vixen

Cont: Post in thread 'The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V'

LondonJohn said:
Ummmmmm..... the beam of a ship is not a physical part of the ship: it is its (widest) width (in normal orientation when afloat). To write something like "only the beam was near hard rock" is utterly nonsensical, and further illustrates your ignorance of the subject matter.






This is pitiful. Unless you know the relative buoyancy of the ship just before it hit the sea bed, you can have no understanding whatsoever of the force with which it impacted the sea bed. You're scientifically illiterate.
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Are you sure about that?


Using https://www.aichatting.net/ with the...
Posted By: zooterkin

The truth here consists of a simple "yes" or "no."
 
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Mojo said:
it's possible that by "did" Vixen meant something other than narrating it, or that there is in fact a previously unknown Small Faces album called Ogden Nut's Gone Flake and it's narrated by an expert in slang. Possibly even by Ogden Nut himself.
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That must be it, given Vixen's professed inerrancy.
 
JayUtah said:
Indeed. Please provide a truthful answer to this question. You said:
(snip)
The truth here consists of a simple "yes" or "no."
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LOL- so we can expect a multipage essay, meandering throughout multiple conspiracy theories, and after that, giving a definitive 'maybe'- or maybe not....
 
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Dabop said:
LOL- so we can expect a multipage essay, meandering throughout multiple conspiracy theories, and after that, giving a definitive 'maybe'- or maybe not....
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@Vixen said she has given us a "demonstration" of a method to determine an estimate for ship impact. That post is either the demonstration she's talking about or it's not. All I require at this point is a yes or no answer regarding that post. It has a "gravity bit," so one could assume that's the post she meant. But since she throws a tantrum if you don't quote her properly in context, it behooves us to get confirmation first.

Vixen has repeatedly challenged the notion that contact with the seabed could poke that hole in the ship. She is certainly telegraphing that she's prepared to challenge the forthcoming supplemental findings on those grounds. And she has said several times that a proper treatment of the hypothesis requires consideration of water resistance. She has chided me and others a number of times for allegedly ignoring it. And it's important enough to have motivated her to produce a proof of concept for the benefit of her critics.
 
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Mojo said:
FTFY
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Well I think we all agree on expecting that Jay will be waiting in vain for his simple 'yes/no' answer....

Its almost as if we all know EXACLY how Vixen behaves.... its not like we have literally hundreds of pages spread out over multiple thread iterations with literally tens of thousands of posts to act as a guide.....
Oh wait, yes, yes we do....
 
Dabop said:
Well I think we all agree on expecting that Jay will be waiting in vain for his simple 'yes/no' answer....

Its almost as if we all know EXACLY how Vixen behaves.... its not like we have literally hundreds of pages spread out over multiple thread iterations with literally tens of thousands of posts to act as a guide.....
Oh wait, yes, yes we do....
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27677 posts in this thread and its 6 predecessor threads, as of this moment. (That's total posts, not the number of posts by any particular person.)

(I tried to account for any overlap between threads, but might have missed some. More than 27650 posts, to be sure.)
 
W.D.Clinger said:
27677 posts in this thread and its 6 predecessor threads, as of this moment. (That's total posts, not the number of posts by any particular person.)

(I tried to account for any overlap between threads, but might have missed some. More than 27650 posts, to be sure.)
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Plus her other conspiracy threads as well (Luton airport etc)
 
Dabop said:
Well I think we all agree on expecting that Jay will be waiting in vain for his simple 'yes/no' answer....
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Oh, no, you're wrong. Vixen always answers questions politely when asked. She said so herself.

Dabop said:
Its almost as if we all know EXACLY how Vixen behaves....
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No, no, you're all meanies for pointing out Vixen's ongoing, well-documented bad behavior. Triple-niners are only interested in ideas, not personalities.
 
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