The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
Yes, because you claimed he had no cockney roots and was from South Africa, when Unwin had cockney roots all along, just I as I discerned.
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He was born in Pretoria and later his mother worked in Bow when he was a kid, but google AI says ...

"No, the suburb of Bow is not considered a traditional
Cockney area, although it is often associated with the East End. The true Cockney definition comes from being born within the sound of the bells of St Mary-le-Bow church in the City of London, a much smaller and more central area."

and he lived in an orphanage in Cheshire when he was sent there after around 5 years back in England. As 'Cockney roots' go these are flimsy in the extreme.
 
zooterkin said:
Do you even remember why you (erroneously) brought up Stanley Unwin in the first place?
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Vixen said:
Yes, because you claimed he had no cockney roots and was from South Africa, when Unwin had cockney roots all along, just I as I discerned.
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That's a "no", then. Here's where you brought him up:

Vixen said:
This guy was an expert on slang. Bit like the guy who does Ogden Nut's Gone Flake for the Small Faces.
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Bonus point: you managed to get the name of the album wrong.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Pointless gibberish.

Ok Vixen, you say kemo sabe is cockney slang? Show us. Find one example, anywhere, of someone using it as such.

No, your possibly mythical "cockney" from Dartford who may or may not be multiple people who may or may not be villains doesn't count.
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Someone asked me a straightforward question and - as usual - I provided a straightforward answer. I made no demands of you. However, I would urge developing listening skills if you want to be a more effective debater. How else can one take on board what Socrates said about knowledge being a virtue and ignorance the opposite?
 
JesseCuster said:
I've done a search and can't find it.

Please post the evidence, and please don't quote a bunch of text which doesn't contain the evidence being asked for.
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From the same EFD site:

In this connection Carl Bildt phoned Mats Odell from the airport and instructed him to have Sjöfartsverket investigate whether there were other ferries of the same design in operation.
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Vixen said:
Someone asked me a straightforward question and -as usual- I provided a straightforward answer.
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Oh, good. Please supply me with a straightforward answer to this question.

Vixen said:
I didn't claim to solve it, I simply demonstrated that of course it's possible to calculate likely impact on seabed, given the specified dimensions. I am a bean counter, not an engineer, so I wouldn't claim to be able to calculate it myself.
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In this post you claim to have solved it. https://internationalskeptics.com/f...nia-case-reopened-part-v.356236/post-14082164

You say,
For a 15,000 tonne vessel to sink in 80 metres of water, it will land with a force of some 803.6 meganewtons. However, that doesn't mean it will ipso facto fracture the ship.
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You provided this post https://internationalskeptics.com/f...nia-case-reopened-part-v.356236/post-14082207 to attempt to show your work, although as noted by the moderators it is a conversation you had with an AI. This is what I imagine must be the "online calculator" you're trying to pass off.

Is this the "demonstration" you referred to in the post I quoted? A simple yes or no will suffice.
 
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GlennB said:
He was born in Pretoria and later his mother worked in Bow when he was a kid, but google AI says ...

"No, the suburb of Bow is not considered a traditional
Cockney area, although it is often associated with the East End. The true Cockney definition comes from being born within the sound of the bells of St Mary-le-Bow church in the City of London, a much smaller and more central area."

and he lived in an orphanage in Cheshire when he was sent there after around 5 years back in England. As 'Cockney roots' go these are flimsy in the extreme.
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He was also evacuated from London for a significant period during the war, there wasn't a formal evacuation like Operation Pied Piper during WWII, but a lot of children were evacuated from 1917 onwards.
 
Vixen said:
Noone is saying Carl Bildt is a bad guy.
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You are, and the rest of the post confirms this.

Vixen said:
However, he was the PM of Sweden at the time, and as a political leader you do have to make tough decisions that can make you unpopular or are not strictly ethical within the common meaning of the word.
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And?

Vixen said:
For example, lying to the public to protect national security; that is one of the key reasons for classifying information.
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Something all leaders do. Part of the job.

Vixen said:
Bildt's US connections, from where he spent time and is said to have developed CIA connections, had a strong interest in seeing off the former Soviet influences in the Baltic states and the Eastern bloc.
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And this is bad how, exactly?

What were his "connections" to the CIA, exactly? Did he call the Swedish Desk up and say, "Hey, you guys need another asset in Swedish government?". Or in his travels, and social interactions did he meet "US Embassy Staff"? Bildt is a political science major, many CIA have BAs in political science, international affairs, and international law. In college, those folks like to mingle, socially. Some would say they're party animals. Either way, people in political science and international affairs constantly travel to conferences worldwide to keep up with our changing world environments, physical, and political. Does CIA attend these conferences? Yup, as does every other intelligence service worth their salt.

And I know I'll get in trouble with this, but the Russians are the bad guys, and Sweden is stuck between them and the west. Sweden's national security is mostly aligned with US national security.

Vixen said:
It would have been a major public scandal and an undermining of public confidence were it to ever come out
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Maybe, maybe not. The public reaction would have been along the lines of, "Why are you guys wasting time with crappy military hardware?"

Vixen said:
In other words, whether Carl Bildt is a nice guy or not is neither here nor there. He would have been under instruction from his intelligence sources, just like the UK PM is under theirs.
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No, this is where you are wrong. Bildt would have received advice, not instructions. And I'm sure MI-6 wishes it could tell the PM what to do.
 
Conspiracy nutters have the most incredibly convoluted worldviews on how things 'run'...

(images of the CIA/MI6/KGB sneaking into the PM's bedroom in the middle of the night and giving him his 'instructions' at knifepoint....)

Inquiring minds want to know- do they have a secretary handing out appointment times??? be mega embarrassing to have all these 'secret agents' running into each other when they aren't supposed to know about each other....
 
Vixen said:
Someone asked me a straightforward question and - as usual - I provided a straightforward answer. I made no demands of you. However, I would urge developing listening skills if you want to be a more effective debater. How else can one take on board what Socrates said about knowledge being a virtue and ignorance the opposite?
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Meaningless gibberish.

You made a claim, support the claim or admit you were wrong.
 
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