Trump's Second Term

Stephen Miller
@StephenM
Judicial despotism is one of the gravest hazards we face to the functioning and endurance of our Republic. No district judge can steal for himself the powers of the Commander-in-Chief.
 
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jimbob said:
We seem to be talking past each other. Police arresting criminals isn't the issue. It's the arrest of innocent US citizens, for example for being the victim of a crash caused by the the same ICE agents or entering private property without warrants and generally acting as though they are above the law.

There are plenty of examples, as you are well aware. And seemingly targeting people who are exercising their first amendment rights. Why did they ram this car, try to arrest the driver, who has no charges against him? Even if he was a criminal, that ramming would have been unnecessarily dangerous (the driver was injured and taken to hospital).

If someone doesn't have due process, nobody does.
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I agree with you that they shouldn't make false arrests. Those victims will sue and if they have legitimate cases will be lavishly compensated for their mistreatment. What, thought, does that have to do with ICE making arrests of people who are actually violating the law?
 
jimbob said:
Grok also claimed that Zyklon B was used for delousing (I saw that tweet, which it did later delete).



www.lemonde.fr

French authorities charge X over Holocaust-denial comments by AI chatbot Grok

On Monday, Elon Musk's social media AI chatbot posted in French that the gas chambers in Nazi death camps were designed for 'disinfection' against typhus, rather than for mass executions.
www.lemonde.fr www.lemonde.fr
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Your logic: Grok once made a mistake; therefore, we cannot trust Grok on any subject.
My logic: You once made a mistake; therefore, we cannot trust you on any subject (not really, but, hopefully, you get the point).
 
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jt512 said:
Your logic: Grok once made a mistake; therefore, we cannot trust Grok on any subject.
My logic: You once made a mistake; therefore, we cannot trust you on any subject (not really, but, hopefully, you get the point).
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If I responded to someone and said "50% of people detained by ICE are not criminals" I would hope people would challenge me, and they should challenge me to support such a claim. Gork should be held to the same standard as all other unsourced claims. If Gork provides references check those and then use them if they do provide verification of your claim . At best Gork (like say Wikipedia) is a starting point, not the end point.
 
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Darat said:
AI search is still prone to hallucinations, even the best of them, you can't - at least yet - rely on them. You have to at least check their references.
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Good advice to all, but anyone using Grok on any politically sensitive subject needs to be particularly careful as there's evidence of it being deliberately biased to produce falsehoods on some subjects, such as White genocide in SA.
 
Darat said:
If I responded to someone and said "50% of people detained by ICE are not criminals" I would hope people would challenge me, and they should challenge me to support such a claim. Gork should be held to the same standard as all other unsourced claims. If Gork provides references check those and then use them if they do provide verification of your claim . At best Gork (like say Wikipedia) is a starting point, not the end point.
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It's also got issues that are more clear than other LLMs

Screenshot_20251121-111259.png
 
Andy_Ross said:
Stephen Miller
@StephenM
Judicial despotism is one of the gravest hazards we face to the functioning and endurance of our Republic. No district judge can steal for himself the powers of the Commander-in-Chief.
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Miller wants you to be afraid of too much legal oversight. Wait till you see what he does with too little.
 
Darat said:
If I responded to someone and said "50% of people detained by ICE are not criminals" I would hope people would challenge me, and they should challenge me to support such a claim. Gork should be held to the same standard as all other unsourced claims. If Gork provides references check those and then use them if they do provide verification of your claim . At best Gork (like say Wikipedia) is a starting point, not the end point.
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Grok does provide sources for its claima. Interesteing that you ignored the report that (left-leaning) CBS news came to the same conclusion as Grok.
 
jt512 said:
Grok does provide sources for its claima. Interesteing that you ignored the report that (left-leaning) CBS news came to the same conclusion as Grok.
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Nothing interesting about it - my point was about using the result of a Gork search as your source for your claim. There is another point in regards to using Gork as your verification source, it can give different results to the same prompt, so "according to Gork" only applies to the specific instance that you prompted it. By all means use it as a starting point but it and the rest of the "search AIs" are not at the stage where we can say "according to AI" and have a reasonable expectation that it has provided an accurate answer.
 
jt512 said:
I agree with you that they shouldn't make false arrests. Those victims will sue and if they have legitimate cases will be lavishly compensated for their mistreatment. What, thought, does that have to do with ICE making arrests of people who are actually violating the law?
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An odd question. He was pretty directly poking at problems with your actual argument, again.

Also, ICE arresting people *correctly* was never a major issue. ICE getting things wrong on large scales, though, and often doing notable damage to citizens in the process is. ICE not actually working to make things better in our country is also something of real note. That you're trying to handwave that away with "Those victims will sue and if they have legitimate cases will be lavishly compensated for their mistreatment." is just a WTF thing. Compensation doesn't actually undo the problem or make what they did okay. Oh, and where's all that money actually coming from? Taxpayers. Not the people actually doing the harm.
 
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Darat said:
Nothing interesting about it - my point was about using the result of a Gork search as your source for your claim. There is another point in regards to using Gork as your verification source, it can give different results to the same prompt, so "according to Gork" only applies to the specific instance that you prompted it. By all means use it as a starting point but it and the rest of the "search AIs" are not at the stage where we can say "according to AI" and have a reasonable expectation that it has provided an accurate answer.
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Is it autocorrect that's putting Gork rather than Grok in your posts?
 
Sitting at breakfast in Charlotte. Once in a while I have to take the breakfast to the room if Fox is on. A lot of local stations are in similar right wing media groups.

Fox news team brainstorming:
What crime stories do we have?
Bill Johnson in a Knoxville trailer park cut his ex-wife's throat and was shot dead by the new boyfried,
Nah, that's routine. Gimme all the stories with immigrant males in them.

"Immigrant stabs local man. In other news 300 illegals were rounded up. They won't be stabbing anyone in North Carolina!"
 
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Segnosaur said:
First of all, keep in mind that simply "arresting people" does not mean that get are criminals, especially with the Trump administration running things. (Just look at the subway sandwich thrower, who was found not guilty)

Secondly, the claim that the arrests were a "major win" for residents is questionable. ICE agents often target non-violent undocumented residents as a way to "bump up" their numbers. So the arrests probably do not make residents any safer, yet their removal is harmful to them (for example taxpayers see their hard-earned dollars going towards the arrests and deportations of people that were not a threat)
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This doesn't even touch the fact that most of these arrests, even on undocumented workers, ARE actually illegal! They've stormed....how many private businesses and residents without warrants by now?

Also, deporting anyone without due process is illegal. Period. It just is. Even from the simple fact that anyone can be accused of being an "undocumented immigrant,' including myself, and even jt512. Which is exactly why EVERYONE MUST have due process. Because if someone doesn't have due process, then none of us do. And this also doesn't even touch on the fact that even US citizens have been illegally arrested and detained.

Oh! And also: It isn't illegal to not show your ID or identify yourself without probable cause. This isn't Nazi Germany where we all MUST carry around our "papers" at all times. That's where illegal detainment and arrests comes in. So yes. It is kidnapping, false imprisonment, as well as assault and battery, on top of 4th amendment violations since they are executing actions outside the legal scope of their jobs.
 
jt512 said:
The data shows that ICE is prioritizing individuals with a criminal history. According to Grok, "the overall percentage of ICE detainees with a criminal history is approximately 50%, according to the most recent internal Department of Homeland Security (DHS) figures from early November 2025."

If ICE were not prioritizing individuals with a criminal history, then the expected percentage of detainees with a criminal history would be equal to the percentage of illegal aliens with a criminal history. So, for example, if 5% of illegal aliens had a criminal history, then we would expect 5% of detainees to have a criminal history. But, instead 50% do, which would make a detainee 10 times as likely to have a criminal history than the average illegal alien. So, unless you believe that 50% of illegal aliens have a criminal history—which would make you a racist—ICE is prioritizing individuals with a criminal history.
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FIRST of all, all LEOs need an arrest warrant. They cannot just go up to random ass people and arrest them. They need an arrest warrant. Or actual probable cause if you are caught in the middle of committing a crime such as shoplifting, DUI, rape, assault, attempted murder, etc. But typically, they need an arrest warrant as the police very rarely catch anyone in the middle of a crime. Period. That's the ACTUAL law. Outside of this, they are committing a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of offenses every single time they so much as touch someone:

Trespassing on private property - If this applies (Home Depot partking lots, homes, apartments, etc.)
Breaking and entering -If this applies (Home Depot partking lots, homes, apartments, etc.)
Kidnapping
Assault
Battery
False imprisonment
Violating the 4th amendment - The very moment an officer asks for your ID and/or to identify yourself, the 4th amendment is automatically invoked. Which means they need probable cause. Not just a "hunch." That's where all of the above violations and crimes come in.

Deporting anyone without due process is a MAJOR violation of the Constitution in at least 2 places. One of which is a violation of the Supremecy Clause, because whether you like it or not, we ARE signatories to international treaties on human rights, and due process is a very basic human right. So it's a violation of the Supremacy Clause as well as the 5th Amendment. Besides the fact that anyone can accuse anyone else of being here illegally, including YOU! Without due process, (and yes, showing your documents, which again is a violation of the 4th Amendment) is part of due process. Since you are now declared to be "illegal," they don't have to accept any of your papers as proof that you are, in fact, a US citizen. And yes. It's already happened.

They aren't enforcing any laws whatsoever. They are violating a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of them. They are, very literally, ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ criminals. This is an indisputable fact.
 
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