The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[catsmate]

Apart from that's a Triton-NN 'Swimmer Delivery Vehicle '
It's a submersible boat rather than a full submarine.
It also lacks tracks.

(Not to be confused with Triton Submarines, the American company that makes deep dive submersible)

And I don't think any were actually constructed given the lack of interest.

H I Sutton - Covert Shores

 

[JesseCuster]

Question 1. Using Base-60 ONLY, show how you would annotate a value of zero using primes.

Is this mean to be a trick question?

Firstly, zero is represented as 0 in any base - binary, octal, decimal, sexigesimal, etc.

Secondly, no-one has been using "base 60" in this thread for anything, everyone is using decimal notation for all the values, even though hours and minutes are divided into 60 sub-units. (and why ask for base-60 ONLY, as if anyone is going to answer mixing and matching number bases?)

Thirdly, is "annotate" the word you want to use? "to add a description or piece of information to data" (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/annotate).

How about you answer the question Vixen, how would *you*:

Annotate the value zero, in base-60 only, using primes.

Stop trying to appear cleverer than everyone else, it isn't working.

 

[catsmate]

This is obviously nonsense.

Wallpaper words.

How credible is it that the authorities had no interest in the captain and the bridge crew?

Speculation and well poisoning.

Think about it. No mention of it in the JAIC Report clearly means it was deemed 'not for public eyes'.

Conspiratorial nonsense.

Andi Meister in Unfinished Logbook writes:

So what?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Is this mean to be a trick question?

Firstly, zero is represented as 0 in any base - binary, octal, decimal, sexigesimal, etc.

Secondly, no-one has been using "base 60" in this thread for anything, everyone is using decimal notation for all the values, even though hours and minutes are divided into 60 sub-units. (and why ask for base-60 ONLY, as if anyone is going to answer mixing and matching number bases?)

Thirdly, is "annotate" the word you want to use? "to add a description or piece of information to data" (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/annotate).

How about you answer the question Vixen, how would *you*:

Annotate the value zero, in base-60 only, using primes.

Stop trying to appear cleverer than everyone else, it isn't working.

Semi serious question, is there actually a convention on what symbols would be used above base 35, or is it just a case of "that's such a dumb idea no-one's seriously considered it".

 

[Steve]

Jesus Christ the prime notation thing again?

Vixen why do you persist in your ignorance of prime notation of time and then try to gaslight everyone into believing that no one but you knew about the concept of prime notation of time?

Keeps posters responding to her. The sole purpose of Vixen's posts.

 

[Here_to_learn]

This is obviously nonsense. How credible is it that the authorities had no interest in the captain and the bridge crew? Think about it. No mention of it in the JAIC Report clearly means it was deemed 'not for public eyes'.

I did think about it, and decided that I didn't trust your statement that there is no mention of the bridge crew. So I checked, and it turns out that there is a chapter about it... How surprising... https://onse.fi/estonia/chapt13_2.html#1

Here is a small excerpt from that chapter.

Of the five officers known to have been on the bridge, second officer A and the third officer were seen leaving the bridge in the final stage of the accident. It is believed that the master, the chief officer and the fourth officer remained on the bridge throughout the accident. This assumption is also supported by the fact that three bodies were seen inside the bridge during the diving investigation.

 

[junkshop]

I did think about it, and decided that I didn't trust your statement that there is no mention of the bridge crew. So I checked, and it turns out that there is a chapter about it... How surprising... https://onse.fi/estonia/chapt13_2.html#1

Here is a small excerpt from that chapter.

I am shocked that reality and the historical record have, yet again, conspired to undermine Vixen's genius.

 

[Steve]

I did think about it, and decided that I didn't trust your statement that there is no mention of the bridge crew. So I checked, and it turns out that there is a chapter about it... How surprising... https://onse.fi/estonia/chapt13_2.html#1

Here is a small excerpt from that chapter.

Our intrepid report reader seems to be quite unfamiliar with the contents of the report. Almost like anything that contradicts her conspiracy fantasy does not exist.

 

[JayUtah]

Semi serious question, is there actually a convention on what symbols would be used above base 35, or is it just a case of "that's such a dumb idea no-one's seriously considered it".

Even the Babylonians didn’t have sixty numerals. Each numeral was composed of a tens glyph and a ones glyph interpreted as a single quantity for that numeral. There were five tens glyphs and nine ones glyphs—a total of 14 glyphs. Spacing identified the grouping of glyphs into numerals. It’s therefore a two-level positional magnitude system. It may be more helpful to think of it as a modulo 60 system rather than a base 60 system.

I don’t go past base 16 for anything. For me it’s 2, 8 (occasionally), 10, and 16.

ETA: For example, 72₁₀ would have been written conceptually as

_,1 10,2

Just imagine our Arabic numeral glyphs are replaced by Babylonian glyphs. But the tens glyph for, say, "fifty" has nothing to do with the ones glyph for "five." You only need 14 glyphs because each base 60 numeral is essentially a kind of numerical digram.

 

[Vixen]

The captain and bridge crew were dead What could they have told the enquiry?

They were not even identified. One would have thought that an important point in the JAIC report would be that (a) the captain was formally identified and declared as dead, (b) he was found where he ought to have been found, (c) the personnel on the bridge were authorised personnel, when at least one of them remains unidentified (the guy with a tattoo on his hand). Obviously this must surely have been carried out, yet the public aren't informed, when key to the accident is what the heck was going on such that assistant crew are doing the MAYDAY on handheld phones which kept losing signal, instead of from the proper communications on the bridge. Tammes had to have some guy in the background shouting out the coordinates, when it should have been flashing up in front of him. Tammes couldn't speak English, as is protocol in these communications, but luckily he managed Finnish. (That guy was a hero.)

 

[Jack by the hedge]

They were not even identified.

What could they have told the enquiry if their corpses had been identified?

 

[Vixen]

They pick on the one and only person who keeps on and on repeating these meritless conspiracy theories over and over again as if they had any truth in them. If you keep championing these loony ideas you can't really be surprised when people get the mistaken impression you don't think they're completely potty.

When someone asks me a question, I politely answer them. JesseCuster asked me a question about the Atlantic lock and I answered him.

 

[Vixen]

What could they have told the enquiry if their corpses had been identified?

The first issue for any inquest or doctor is to first formally declare a person dead and to confirm their identity.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The first issue for any inquest or doctor is to first formally declare a person dead and to confirm their identity.

And if it's not an inquest and they're not doctors?

 

[Vixen]

You know what seems even more reasonable to me? That politicians and shipbuilders whose reputations and competence are implicated in the disaster would spin alternative theories intended to get themselves off the hook. I guess some people prefer camel to gnat.

Come off it. Have you any idea how much money Lloyds underwriters are sitting on? It's almost bottomless. The shipbuilder could have easily settled in hundreds of millions, even billions, with non-disclosure agreements but didn't, because they didn't accept liability. (I have no idea whether they are right or wrong, except there has been no closure.)

 

[Vixen]

And if it's not an inquest and they're not doctors?

Given that captains have been known to scarper off a sinking ship, you would have thought it was number one priority to establish Captain Andresson's demise.

 

[Vixen]

Not everyone is comfortable risking the lives of divers by sending them on pointless tasks that have nothing to do with the ship sinking. They're on a very important clock, and they had a list of items to find, or recover, or record. Even if the captain had stayed on the bridge the ship was still going to sink. This is a non-issue.

Exactement. It was extremely hazardous for the Rockwater divers to go the cabins on deck six. Piles of bodies blocking their paths at stairwells and corridors; yet they went to incredible lengths to find that briefcase. How pointless was that...?

 

[Vixen]

And this is why this thread is in the Conspiracy Theory board and not the Science & Technology or History boards.

Actually, I started it in Current Affairs news because that's exactly what the reinvestigation is and the reasons for it.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Given that captains have been known to scarper off a sinking ship, you would have thought it was number one priority to establish Captain Andresson's demise.

Why would I have thought that? They were tasked with investigating the reasons the ship sank. That was their number one priority. Not targets for revenge. Not seeking out officers who might, through some fantastically unlikely scenario, have survived undetected.

 

[Vixen]

Well said.

In an earlier discussion in this thread, I tried to bring to the table a little bit of my experience in overseeing commercial diving operations in the oil&gas industry, including jobs performed by Rockwater (not Rockwell ), and indeed I identified one of the divers involved in the Estonia job whom (it turns out) I know personally/professionally. So I would modestly claim to have a reasonable knowledge of how a commercial diving operation works, in terms of defined scope, hazard management, and recording/reporting, albeit not in a salvage-type operation like the Estonia - which, it must be said, is pretty harrowing for the dive team, to be digging around dead bodies. The individual diver that I am acquainted with, is no 'snowflake' (I hate that term), but is ex-SAS, so he's been around plenty deaths and grim situations.

However, some participants think they know better, because they can Google or ask AI for the definition of a hull! 'Think about it'.

It's a pertinent question to ask why Rockwater (part of the US Halliburton Group, the CEO, warmongerer, the late Dick Cheney) divers British/Irish were given the contract when Norwegian, Dutch and Swedish divers were more cost beneficial for the taxpayer plus logistically more familiar with the Baltic Sea. The obvious answer is the CIA element and US involvement. and interest in the disaster.