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Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

theprestige said:
I think the issue is, nobody can come up with a list of good things antifa-identifying people have done. During the 2020 Portland riots, violent demonstrators barricaded people inside a government building, and then firebombed it. But that's not antifa, we're told. Antifa are the other guys. Well, which other guys? The ones running a food bank and a rehab center and a sober shelter? Nope. Antifa-identifying people don't play that. The entire brand of the movement is political violence. Anonymous, disavowable political violence.
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This is the sort of garbage argument Christians love to use regarding atheists too. We see Christians volunteering/ donating/ etc all the time but not atheists. Yeah because those Christians groups are specifically doing it under that banner and promoting themselves and their organizing. Atheists volunteer too but they largely just do it, rather than as an atheist group while promoting that group. In the same vein antifa is largely only going out under the antifa label to disrupt fascists and their agenda. Why the ◊◊◊◊ would people with anti fascist ideology print matching t-shirts and volunteer at a food bank? Their good deeds are the pushback they give against fascism.

But I suppose those who support fascism world certainly have a hard time seeing the good they do.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Indeed. There are groups which call themselves Antifa, but it's probably worth distinguishing between people who campaign, or indeed protest, and call themselves Antifa, and violent and destructive acts like rioting and smashing stuff up which others label Antifa. The circles in that venn diagram may be more widely separated than some here expect.
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Yup, Texas AG Paxton explained (paraphrasing) that if you're violent, then you're antifa, but if you're not, then you're not antifa.

What a stupid, lying, POS jackass.
 
The_Animus said:
This is the sort of garbage argument Christians love to use regarding atheists too. We see Christians volunteering/ donating/ etc all the time but not atheists. Yeah because those Christians groups are specifically doing it under that banner and promoting themselves and their organizing. Atheists volunteer too but they largely just do it, rather than as an atheist group while promoting that group. In the same vein antifa is largely only going out under the antifa label to disrupt fascists and their agenda. Why the ◊◊◊◊ would people with anti fascist ideology print matching t-shirts and volunteer at a food bank? Their good deeds are the pushback they give against fascism.
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"Fascism."

And barricading people in a building and setting fire to it isn't a good deed pushback against fascism. It's indiscriminate political violence for its own sake.
 
Matthew Best said:
Who are these people then?
rosecityantifa.org

Rose City Antifa

Homepage of Rose City Antifa.
rosecityantifa.org
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This reminds me a lot of "debating" forum troll 16.5 back in the day, when he would argue tooth and nail that atheism was a religion because somewhere on a college campus someone tried to start an "atheist get-together/group." The mere existence of one single flyer advertising the first (and only) meeting anywhere was used as proof by him that atheists get together under the banner of atheism to practice atheism just like Christians get together as a church to practice worshipping their God.
 
Of course, as has been pointed out already in this thread, there were destructive riots some years ago following protests, but the thing about protestors is that they generally do not, with very few exceptions, consider themselves to be the bad guys or intend to riot. Rioting is what you get when you police a protest wrongly.

Doesn't matter what the protest is about, BLM or Jan 6th or whatever. It's just people being people, and crowd control 101.

Protesters believe they are in the right. They are exercising what they see as their moral right to stand up for what is right and good and is being ignored or trampled down. You may or may not have ever been on a protest but I would invite you seriously to imagine what sort of issue could make you actually do so. You would be doing it because it was the moral thing to do and you would be ashamed not to join.

Policing a protest goes wrong if the police seem to be interfering with the crowd's lawful, moral right to protest peacefully. If the crowd sees what looks like their moral rights being oppressed they are going to be outraged and defiant. Doesn't matter if some stupid jerk on one or other side "started it", the police need to be the disciplined professionals who know about de-escalation and not the bullies who wade in and break heads to stamp their authority on everything. If the police wade in, some people will panic and run away, others will stand and push back. Just people being people.

The unfortunate extra contribution this time is that it's not just the police on the side of the authorities. It's some less professional and less trained and less disciplined folk too. What could possibly go wrong?
 
theprestige said:
"Fascism."
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Would you be happier if we called it sparkling authoritarianism? Or gold leaved totalitarianism, perhaps? A cult of anti-democratically orange personality?

How many of the characteristics of fascism do ee need to see before it's time to call it out? Because they are very quickly hearing for the full set. Militarism, naming enemies, exclusionary nationalism obsession with national decline (Bidendidit), emphasis on crime to create fear, vilifying your political opponents; i'd say they're definitely sparkling authoritarians. Do you need them to be from italy or spain to agree with the f-word?
 
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Helen said:
Would you be happier if we called it sparkling authoritarianism? Or gold leaved totalitarianism, perhaps? A cult of anti-democratically orange personality?

How many of the characteristics of fascism do ee need to see before it's time to call it out? Because they are very quickly hearing for the full set. Militarism, naming enemies, exclusionary nationalism obsession with national decline (Bidendidit), emphasis on crime to create fear, vilifying your political opponents; i'd say they're definitely sparkling authoritarians. Do you need them to be from italy or spain to agree with the f-word?
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I'd be happier if you could articulate what fascist horrors were being enacted by the Portland city government in 2020, that necessitated vandalism, arson, and looting as a rational "anti-fascist" response. I would like to see at least *some* characteristics of "fascism", that aren't indistiguishable from "having a government".
 
theprestige said:
I'd be happier if you could articulate what fascist horrors were being enacted by the Portland city government in 2020, that necessitated vandalism, arson, and looting as a rational "anti-fascist" response. I would like to see at least *some* characteristics of "fascism", that aren't indistiguishable from "having a government".
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More fantasy crap.

Thanks for the laugh Texas AG Paxton.
 
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