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Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

Matthew Best said:
Who are these people then?
rosecityantifa.org

Rose City Antifa

Homepage of Rose City Antifa.
rosecityantifa.org
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They don't seem to be advocating societal overthrow. Nor destruction, nor unlawful activity, nor government subversion. They seem to be limiting their scope specifically to Portland OR. They are trying to actually stop the people doing what Trump accuses "antifa" of doing. The worst you could say is they doxx local fascists, of which there are plenty in Portland.

No references whatever to "antifa USA" headquarters, nor national management, nor anything the GOP rails against. It's essentially a neighbourhood Facebook group.

There are plenty of anti-fascist people in the USA like these. But there is no organised national "antifa".
 
Trausti said:
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Is that supposed to prove your (and I use this term in a very broad sense) "point"?
 
Norman Alexander said:
They don't seem to be advocating societal overthrow. Nor destruction, nor unlawful activity, nor government subversion. They seem to be limiting their scope specifically to Portland OR. They are trying to actually stop the people doing what Trump accuses "antifa" of doing. The worst you could say is they doxx local fascists, of which there are plenty in Portland.

No references whatever to "antifa USA" headquarters, nor national management, nor anything the GOP rails against. It's essentially a neighbourhood Facebook group.

There are plenty of anti-fascist people in the USA like these. But there is no organised national "antifa".
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In that case, as is usually the case on this forum, we are all arguing about definitions.
 
Trausti said:
Of course the Left does. It's nothing new.the iranier left Iranian leftists celebrated the return of the Ayatollah. They were then rounded up and shot. The Left and Islamist have a shared hatred of the West. The Left are useful idiots. Queers for Palestine. Good, grief.
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They celebrated the disappearance of the Shah, his totalitarian regime, the torture and persecution by his secret as well as non-secret police, and his stranglehold on every single one of his citizens, at home or abroad. They thought they were rid of dictators. The Iranian left is the strongest, most vociferous opposition to the ayatollah and his henchmen.

Hatred of the West? Don't be ridiculous. If someone does not think the Western world is perfect and want change, that does not nean they hate it.
 
Helen said:
They celebrated the disappearance of the Shah, his totalitarian regime, the torture and persecution by his secret as well as non-secret police, and his stranglehold on every single one of his citizens, at home or abroad. They thought they were rid of dictators. The Iranian left is the strongest, most vociferous opposition to the ayatollah and his henchmen.

Hatred of the West? Don't be ridiculous. If someone does not think the Western world is perfect and want change, that does not nean they hate it.
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That's be the same Pahlavi who was put in place by Churchill and Eisenhower's coup, engineered to eliminate a democratically elected socialist government with popular support, in favour of their oil interests, and specifically Churchill's personal holdings in APOC?
 
catsmate said:
That's be the same Pahlavi who was put in place by Churchill and Eisenhower's coup, engineered to eliminate a democratically elected socialist government with popular support, in favour of their oil interests, and specifically Churchill's personal holdings in APOC?
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One and the same! He was better than the present theocracy, but that is saying very little. Those who have been victimised by both would be hard put to choose between them.
 
Helen said:
They celebrated the disappearance of the Shah, his totalitarian regime, the torture and persecution by his secret as well as non-secret police, and his stranglehold on every single one of his citizens, at home or abroad. They thought they were rid of dictators. The Iranian left is the strongest, most vociferous opposition to the ayatollah and his henchmen.

Hatred of the West? Don't be ridiculous. If someone does not think the Western world is perfect and want change, that does not nean they hate it.
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Also the fact that the Iranian left wing was quite strong during the deposition of the Shah, but America worked harder to subvert their efforts and felt that the Ayatollah regime might be more amenable. They didn't have any problems supplying arms to the Ayatollah regime in the aftermath.
 
The major thing the Americans like to highlight is that women were allowed to wear mini-skirts during the Shah regime, that made up for any other faults they had. However, in later years women were allowed to work, drive cars, teach in schools and colleges, travel freely in Iran, and they had more freedom than America's golden child in the Middle East--Saudi Arabia.
 
Matthew Best said:
In that case, as is usually the case on this forum, we are all arguing about definitions.
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You don't say! :sarcasm:

All it takes is for Trump and co. to define anyone who opposes any of their outrageous demands and corrupt activities as "antifa" in order to justify the inordinate and illegal action from their praetorian guard, the ICEstapo.
 
Matthew Best said:
Meanwhile anything bad done by people who describe themselves as "Antifa" is dismissed as they aren't the "Antifa" that Trump is describing. What a productive discussion we're having!
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Trump wants to make it a crime to belong to "antifa", that is the problem. Such an organisation doesn't exist. There is no problem in going after violent people or small groups calling themselves "antifa".
 
i mean, obviously people are more concerned with the lawless actions of the president and federal government. rightfully so
 
Opcode said:
Lots of people identify as Antifa. Local Antifa groups definitely exist, and they definitely organize protests.
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I identify as antifa, for I am a true American with two grandfathers that bravely and heroically fought the Nazis. Being Antifa is the default position for actual Americans. And Canadians, Brits, Aussies, French, Italians, etc, etc, etc, and so on. Only those who are anti-antifa are terrorists.
 
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Matthew Best said:
Meanwhile anything bad done by people who describe themselves as "Antifa" is dismissed as they aren't the "Antifa" that Trump is describing. What a productive discussion we're having!
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These bad things done by people who describe themselves as "antifa", do you have any evidence that they happened?

What bad things were they, who actually did them, and how do you know they described themselves as antifa? Moreso, do these self-described antifa members also belong to groups like the Proud Boys, or are they simply opportunistic troublemakers who want cause chaos and then get someone else, some shadowy secret organization that doesn't actually exist, to take the blame?
 
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