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Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?

Official government reports, for one:

"Attacks on federal personnel and property over the previous several days have included violent attacks on federal officers with weapons as well as efforts to start fires at the Hatfield Federal Courthouse with federal law enforcement officers inside the building."


Photojournalist videos for another:

That doesn't support your claim that Portland was burnt down. Is there another city you can point to that supports your original claim?
 
The Portland protests resulted in more than one fire. Entire businesses burned. It seems that some people think that setting multiple fires causing millions of dollars in damage is not "setting the city on fire." It's like somebody who calls the fire department and says, "Hurry, my house is on fire!" and the dispatcher says, "That depends. Is it the whole house, or just a couple of rooms?"
There is a difference between fires and something "burned down". In normal parlance "burned down" means that there is very little left. I can show you some pictures of cities that are actually burned down. They do not look like Portland in any way.
 
Is all your news five years old?

something about covid seems to have got a certain amount of people stuck in a moment in time.

anyway, the biggest damages to downtown portland was lost revenue. that's not burnt down.

and if you take a look around at what's happened since then, an honest person would say maybe the anti-fascists had a point.

anyway, wonder if we're going to bring up lost revenue as damages due to ice raids? suddenly, that's not important i'm sure
 
I do not live in the US, and I have no special knowledge of what happens in Portland or Chicago, but I believe it is much the same as everywhere else: the large majority of protesters are peaceful, but a few are not, and they tend to steal the media reports, because they sell more ads.
All demonstrations attract violent elements, some of which genuinely believe in the cause, while others just want to be violent.
In fact, I almost disbelieve the reports that the No Kings demonstrations were as peaceful as claimed, because the violent elements always come.

So of course there was violence in Portland, and of course there were fires, but this in no way makes antifascists a violent group.

The disconcerting fact about modern America is that right-wing violence — which is always more prevalent because the right is driven mostly by hate and fear — is sanctioned, and even promoted by the government. It is never criticised, rarely punished, and often pardoned. That is scary.

But it fits entirely into the script for turning the US into a fascist state.
 
That wasn't an Antifa group. That was Patriot Guard Riders (PGR). They aren't associated with Antifa and they have completely different tactics than Antifa. I can't find any instance of anyone who claims to be Antifa forming a human wall to shield anybody.

I will admit to the possibility that I'm wrong about who did it there, but as Pixel42 noted them identifying as antifa, especially around the time it happened, would be no surprise. It's been quite a while, after all. Also, with Westboro Baptist, there's probably more than one event that it could easily be. With that said, though, on a quick googling of "antifa human wall" I got this -

An "Antifa human wall" is a protest tactic where activists form a physical line or human chain to block or disrupt far-right demonstrations, events, or speakers
.

This tactic is a form of "direct action," a core philosophy of the anti-fascist movement which prioritizes immediate, physical intervention over traditional policy reform or dialogue to confront what they perceive as fascism, racism, and white supremacy.

Key aspects of the "human wall" tactic:

  • Purpose: The primary goal is to prevent opponents (such as white supremacists or neo-Nazis) from marching, holding rallies, or speaking, thereby "shutting down" their ability to spread their message.
    • Method: Activists link arms or stand in dense formations, sometimes using shields, to create a physical barrier.
    • Context: This tactic is often employed in street confrontations at high-profile events where Antifa groups counter-protest right-wing gatherings.
    • Associated tactics: Participants often wear black clothing and masks (a "black bloc" tactic) to conceal their identities from opponents and law enforcement.

Antifa activists justify these actions, including the potential for physical confrontation that can arise from forming such barriers, as necessary self-defense and a means to prevent the growth of fascism, arguing that hate speech is not protected free speech

The method and usage is pretty much exactly the same.

No, the challenge to me was not to prove that breaking storefronts, looting and rioting are good reasons to condemn a group. The challenge posted to me was to prove that Antifa exists and participates in violent conduct. That's all that example was intended to demonstrate. You should concede me those points.

The immediate challenge that wasn't really being forwarded seriously, perhaps. Anti-Fa existing was never in true dispute and nor was that they have been involved in violence. That your attempted arguments to that effect were valid and reasonable arguments was more in dispute, perhaps, but that's a notably different thing that you didn't seem to catch.

Again, this was an example of the Proud Boys - a very right group - causing trouble and violence. People, including people who identify as antifa, fought back instead of just letting themselves be punching bags. "Antifa participates in violence" is quite the spin on the event.

People who identify as Antifa certainly have committed crimes, yes, but your "proof" is not actually helping you.

The court sided with him.

He was assaulted. Assault is a real crime, at last check. Of course the court sided with him that he was assaulted.

The list explains itself; a group of rioters who were arrested and charged. You can look up their backgrounds if you wish.

No. It's not that, either. You didn't pay attention to what it was in the first place, got things wrong, and are now trying to get me to do the work to prove that you're actually right for you?

No.

It's a data point, one of several I posted, and a small fraction that are easily findable on the Web, if you actually cared about facts.

It is a data point. Just not a data point that actually supports your arguments.

Except that I've shown that people who are affiliated with Antifa groups have been arrested, charged and convicted. Your denials are typical of Leftist/Liberal dishonesty, and that's why I vote for Trump.
Your remarkable lack of reading comprehension again here does make me utterly unsurprised that you voted for Trump, yes.
 
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Gawd! It's like reading a broken record
Of course. They know people here will religiously feed them no matter what, so why put in any effort.
Even if he isn't a troll, anyone who start off by saying they think cities were burned down in 2020 are so deep in the information silo they're not worth the effort. I'm not a cult deprogrammer.
 
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Of course. They know people here will religiously feed them no matter what, so why put in any effort.
Even if he isn't a troll, anyone who start off by saying they think cities were burned down in 2020 are so deep in the information silo they're not worth the effort. I'm not a cult deprogrammer.
When all one consumes are cult media outlets, the resulting bowel movements smell like bull ◊◊◊◊.
 
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When all one consumes are cult media outlets, the resulting bowel movements smell like bull ◊◊◊◊.
It's the way they've made it a virtue to shut off their brains that gets to me. Not too many years ago a fire burned down a significant part of a historic village here in Norway. Footage of the fire and aftermath were on the media for a long time afterwards (like in the video I linked to). You'd think the cultists would ask themselves why no one (not even OAN, right-wing YouTube channels, or sites like LiveLeak) was showing footage of the cities burning, talking about the massive logistical challenges of the millions of displaced people, or saying anything about the rebuilding efforts. If whole cities were really burned down the coverage would be like after Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans.

I suppose being in a cult conditions you to just shut off your brain.
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You'd think the cultists would ask themselves why no one (not even OAN, right-wing YouTube channels, or sites like LiveLeak) was showing footage of the cities burning
I can’t see Fox News, but I have had the impression that they really show buildings in flames and corpses in the streets, which might have shocked the 6-year-old-brained leader of the U.S. into thinking that this was worse than cities burning during the Second World War.
 
I can’t see Fox News, but I have had the impression that they really show buildings in flames and corpses in the streets, which might have shocked the 6-year-old-brained leader of the U.S. into thinking that this was worse than cities burning during the Second World War.
It's like when you have a really absurd dream, that you instantly realize made no sense when you woke up, but while you were dreaming it just made perfect sense to you? That's how I imagine the cult experience to be like. Being in an absurd dream that you don't realize is absurd because the part of your brain that's supposed to sense that has been shut off.
 
your smoking gun for a nation-wide secret violent organization is a single person being sentenced to 14 days?!?!!??
Yes, obviously the number 14 is a calling card from an organized fascist Deep State underworld wanting to show us they're in charge of the justice system :tinfoil .
 
Antifa is decentralized, but it definitely exists and has organizers.
You seem to be confused.

Imagine if I claimed that everyone who loves chess is part of the Chess Lover Organization. That would be pretty ridiculous. If I were to point to the existence of several chess clubs, that would not help my claim. I'm still just wrong.

Likewise, you can point to the existence of several leftist groups here and there, but that does not mean that they are all part of a single organization. You're just wrong.
 

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