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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

arthwollipot said:
Let's be very clear on what just happened.

This was not a targeted military strike in retaliation for Hamas killing an IDF soldier.

This was Israel slaughtering 46 children because Hamas gave them the wrong corpse.
Click to expand...

Obviously the air strikes were aimed (targeted) at the HAMAS military figures, around 26 mid-level fighters & commanders. Yes, let's be very clear about that.

JPost's well-versed journalist Yonah Jeremy Bob develops some insights about the ebb and flow of a fragile ceasefire:
www.jpost.com

Israeli strikes against Hamas, and what was left out | The Jerusalem Post

Despite the increased lethality in the IDF's strikes against Hamas, Israel still shows commitment to the ceasefire and the urge to avoid a large-scale invasion of Gaza.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com
 
webfusion said:
Obviously the air strikes were aimed (targeted) at the HAMAS military figures, around 26 mid-level fighters & commanders. Yes, let's be very clear about that.
Click to expand...
Because Hamas gave them the wrong corpse.

Actually, let's be completely clear.

Because Hamas gave them the wrong bits of corpse. Pieces. Body parts.
 
webfusion said:
In fact, HAMAS is very much playing games, and they are using vile psychological tactics to cause pain to Israel.
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Israel doesn't stoop to such tactics. Israel just blows them to bits. And their children. And their neighbours. And bombs their houses, schools, and hospitals into rubble. Much simpler, more straightforward.
 
arthwollipot doesn't seem to understand the dynamic at work in this conflict.

Israel is paying the ransoms demanded by HAMAS in a bargain they both agreed-to.
The HAMAS is then not fulfilling their end.

The result of that will be further devastation and additional misery for Gaza, courtesy of the Israelis who aren't in any mood for this HAMAS nonsense.

www.israelnationalnews.com

Captivity survivor Omri Miran: Keep going until the last hostage comes home

Captivity survivor Omri Miran visits Hostages Square, thanking the Nahal Oz community and urging continued support for the 11 hostages still being held: “Let’s keep going until the last hostage comes home.”
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com
 
There would not be a seperation barrier or checkpoints if there had not been a Munich, a Klinghoffer, a Dolphinarium.

No Hamburg, Dresden or Tokyo without Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry.

Actions have consequences and the more you take advantages of morals, decency and gallantry, the more that they erode.
 
arthwollipot said:
Israel doesn't stoop to such tactics. Israel just blows them to bits. And their children. And their neighbours. And bombs their houses, schools, and hospitals into rubble. Much simpler, more straightforward.
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Yeah, wars are not nice. Particularly for those who start them.
 
webfusion said:
The opinions of Orit Strock may be harsh, but that doesn't make her statements incorrect.
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Her biography isn’t just a list of harsh opinions. She has been accused by her own daughter of sexual abuse and child pornography. And her son has been convicted of torturing a Palestinian boy and leaving him naked with his hands bound. She supports her son.

Quite the family. And she’s a minister in the government!?!

Holy crap!
 
There are several people in the Israeli government (past & present) who are not really paragons of virtue.
(Ben Gvir being a prime example).
Is the subject now her? How did we pivot to attacking her personally and away from what she noted?

In all fairness, Orit Strock stated: "The zone of terror that currently exists across nearly half of Gaza - the whole ‘red’ sector where HAMAS is entrenched - must change,” she said, emphasizing that a series of painful steps that could be taken against HAMAS have already been presented by Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to the prime minister.

That is an accurate assessment in the opinion of probably half of the populaton of the state.
If you have a disgreement with that widely-held view, please offer it.

For the record, current polling reflects an electoral loss for Benny Gantz's Blue and White Party, Yoaz Hendel's Reservists Party, Bezalel Smotrich's Religious Zionist Party (Ms. Strock's party), and the Arab party Balad, all of whom failed to pass the minimum threshold of votes to enter Knesset.

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angrysoba said:
I seriously can’t understand the callousness here. Children, hospitals, schools bombed and the response is that the innocent can die with the guilty because Hamas started it.
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The response you're seeing here is actually more along the lines of:

War is designed, by its very nature, as full and total application of overwhelming deadly force.
See: Japan 1940's
The overall toll remains immense, encompassing casualties from both direct violence and the breakdown of infrastructure, health systems, and supply chains, resulting in famine & lack of medical care, resulting in non-combat-related fatalities.

The current ceasefire (yes, it's a ceasefire, and being held in general) is being threatened by HAMAS refusing to fulfill the terms they actually agreed-to.
Their choice.

"OLEV" (Hebrew)
That is now the overall condition of Gaza.
HAMAS brought them to this point.
HAMAS can undo it, by leaving.
 
I agree with Web.

I have no time for pacifists who think only the guilty should die in war.

The babies and young children are indeed innocent. Anyone older, particularly if male? Somewhat less likely.

As for "the Hamas civil administration is separate from its militants" claim that is circulating online?

As Calbear said on alternatehistory dot com about the Reich:

"Much more important is the absolutely stunning percentage of German civilians who took part in the civil administration of, among other things, the business side of the Death Camp industry. It was these effectively apolitical citizens who enabled the Party and the Reich to go on it's murder spree arcoss the European continent.

There is no way to whitewash that sort of willingness, none. It is one thing to be afraid to seek up when people are being snatched off the street out of fear, cowardice & self-preservation can be very strong emotions. It is entirely another to happily and willingly aid in the crimes being committed against Humanity, something that MILLIONS of non-Nazi Parry members did on a daily basis."
 
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angrysoba said:
I seriously can’t understand the callousness here. Children, hospitals, schools bombed and the response is that the innocent can die with the guilty because Hamas started it.
Click to expand...
If I punch a kid senseless and he's bleeding on the ground with a permanent brain injury, "he started it!" is the most childish rationale to ever not work in a schoolyard.
 
arthwollipot, you realize that your little parable revolves around the actual events of 10-7, as HAMAS claimed their AlAqsaFlood operation was a result of Israeli 'occupation and cruelty' that has been going on since the late-1940's.
In other words, HAMAS did not 'start' anything on 10-7, but rather, was only acting according to their goals of 'liberating' the entire land from the Jews, and the actions of their 'freedom fighters' are in response to the Zionist invasion of Arab Lands.

HAMAS' basic position is "Jews started this conflict..."

And here we are...
 
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