General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Hercules56]

Has nothing to do with them being Jews. But led by a govt of right wing racist fascists. If they change their govt and their society to one that respects and tolerates diversity and does not allow racist war crimes and terrorism and discrimination, they will be loved by the world.

 

[arthwollipot]

Like I said, it's a tossup who breaks the cease fire first.

 

[Hercules56]

Like I said, it's a tossup who breaks the cease fire first.

Sadly the cease -fire allows Israel to continue committing racist war crimes in the West Bank.

 

[webfusion]

Nothing wrong with hating Netanyahu, who in fact was a member of a fascist party until 1988.

You are saying he is CURRENTLY at the head of a government of fascists and racists.
It is entirely possible that he may resign (for health reasons, or just because he's 'sick' of the job, especially after these past few years) and then who's gonna be your whipping-boy? Anyone specifically you have in mind?

Oct 7 was a tragedy caused by a conspiracy between Islamist extremists (Hamas) and Israeli war criminals who together turned Gaza into a massive concentration camp suffering from decades of inhumane conditions.

You realize that the Muslim Brotherhood (first-cousins of HAMAS) isn't appreciated anywhere they raise their nasty ideology of jihad and celebration of death?
Certainly Egypt wants nothing to do with them.
(which partly explains why Gazans are stuck where they are, without any exit through Rafah to El-Arish.)

Gaza has been a humanitarian nightmare for more than decades. More like a few centuries.
In fact, most Arabs in the entire Historical Palestine region were simple 'fellaheen' precariously but diligently existing in varying degrees of subsistence and poverty.
At the start of the 20th century, Gaza had diverse Muslim, Christian, and Jewish communities that coexisted.

Israel attempted to reverse the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza (that took place within the context of the 1929 anti-Jew rioting), and succeeded with re-establishing a flourishing Jewish presence in the 1980's and 1990's.
It was all for naught.

Maybe now, that situation can be again revisited, with Jews and Arabs again making Gaza into something better than it has been for generations.
That's the overall idea, anyway.

(See: 20-point Gaza Re-Invigoration Program)

My hatred of IDF war crimes has no relation to them being mostly Jews, but it appears your denial/support of their war crimes is because the perpetrators are Jews or cuz the victims are Muslims.

You hate the IDF.
You hate the Israeli government.
You hate the Israeli Prime Minister.
You hate the men and women who comprise the majority of Israeli voters.

And here we are... Chag Sameah.

 

[webfusion]

Like I said, it's a tossup who breaks the cease-fire first.

In the Rafah/Philadelphi zone, the IDF has not withdrawn.
HAMAS is 'settling scores' with local clans who are trying to break HAMAS' grip, as these families/communities want nothing to do with the jihadists and turned to Israel for housing (mobile homes), small arms & financial/food aid & other forms of assistance.

Hamas not yet disarmed, kills Gazan rivals | The Jerusalem Post

Hamas has killed at least 32 people since the beginning of the ceasefire.

www.jpost.com

I'm not sure how long Israel can just stand-by without providing logistical/military support to these clans.

 

[Hercules56]

You are saying he is CURRENTLY at the head of a government of fascists and racists.
It is entirely possible that he may resign (for health reasons, or just because he's 'sick' of the job, especially after these past few years) and then who's gonna be your whipping-boy? Anyone specifically you have in mind?



You realize that the Muslim Brotherhood (first-cousins of HAMAS) isn't appreciated anywhere they raise their nasty ideology of jihad and celebration of death?
Certainly Egypt wants nothing to do with them.
(which partly explains why Gazans are stuck where they are, without any exit through Rafah to El-Arish.)

Gaza has been a humanitarian nightmare for more than decades. More like a few centuries.
In fact, most Arabs in the entire Historical Palestine region were simple 'fellaheen' precariously but diligently existing in varying degrees of subsistence and poverty.
At the start of the 20th century, Gaza had diverse Muslim, Christian, and Jewish communities that coexisted.

Israel attempted to reverse the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza (that took place within the context of the 1929 anti-Jew rioting), and succeeded with re-establishing a flourishing Jewish presence in the 1980's and 1990's.
It was all for naught.

Maybe now, that situation can be again revisited, with Jews and Arabs again making Gaza into something better than it has been for generations.
That's the overall idea, anyway.

(See: 20-point Gaza Re-Invigoration Program)



You hate the IDF.
You hate the Israeli government.
You hate the Israeli Prime Minister.
You hate the men and women who comprise the majority of Israeli voters.

And here we are... Chag Sameah.

Luckily there is a small but loud minority of Israeli Jews who are not racist fascist scum. They make me proud and have my full support.

Maybe in a generation their numbers will grow.

 

[Hercules56]

Gaza has been a humanitarian nightmare for more than decades.

Yeah and its 100% your government's fault.

 

[webfusion]

Yeah and its 100% your government's fault.

And Egypt has 0% responsibility? No precentage whatsoever?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The people who wanted peace got burned a lot in the past - the deal at the start of the year also made it this far before Israel just refused to go to the next phase.
The stakes are much higher now, and we all know that Trump will wash his hands of the whole thing when things go sideways, unless Qatar forces him to keep the pressure on Netanjahu.

 

[arthwollipot]

In the Rafah/Philadelphi zone, the IDF has not withdrawn.
HAMAS is 'settling scores' with local clans who are trying to break HAMAS' grip, as these families/communities want nothing to do with the jihadists and turned to Israel for housing (mobile homes), small arms & financial/food aid & other forms of assistance.

Yes, and Israeli militias are attacking and killing residents trying to return home, including this prominent Palestinian journalist:

Palestinian journalist Saleh Aljafarawi shot dead in Gaza City clashes

Sources say the 28-year-old was killed by members of Israel-linked 'militia' fighting Hamas in the Sabra neighbourhood.

www.aljazeera.com

I just think that you represent a rather vocal and obviously miserable segment of American society that has taken it upon themselves to be haters of a majority of the Jews in Israel.

Yeah, sorry about that. We just don't like seeing those who commit genocide and those who support the commission of genocide get away with it. It's our... what's it called? Oh yeah. Human compassion.

 

[Planigale]

You realize that the Muslim Brotherhood (first-cousins of HAMAS) isn't appreciated anywhe they raise their nasty ideology of jihad and celebration of death?
Certainly Egypt wants nothing to do with them.
(which partly explains why Gazans are stuck where they are, without any exit through Rafah to El-Arish.)

Gaza has been a humanitarian nightmare for more than decades. More like a few centuries.
In fact, most Arabs in the entire Historical Palestine region were simple 'fellaheen' precariously but diligently existing in varying degrees of subsistence and poverty.
At the start of the 20th century, Gaza had diverse Muslim, Christian, and Jewish communities that coexisted.

Israel attempted to reverse the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza (that took place within the context of the 1929 anti-Jew rioting), and succeeded with re-establishing a flourishing Jewish presence in the 1980's and 1990's.
It was all for naught.

Maybe now, that situation can be again revisited, with Jews and Arabs again making Gaza into something better than it has been for generations.
That's the overall idea, anyway.

(See: 20-point Gaza Re-Invigoration Program)



You hate the IDF.
You hate the Israeli government.
You hate the Israeli Prime Minister.
You hate the men and women who comprise the majority of Israeli voters.

And here we are... Chag Sameah.

I am constantly amazed by the ignorant things you post. Your view of the Arab and Muslim world is shaped by false beliefs.

Remember the Muslim Brotherhood won the presidential election in Egypt.

Celebration in Egypt as Morsi declared winner

Muslim Brotherhood candidate and president-elect in victory speech vows to unite the country and stand up for democracy.

www.aljazeera.com

He was then overthrown in a military coup.

The muslim brotherhood in Egypt started as an anti-colonial movement, and like many e.g. the ANC in South Africa, that included violent opposition to the colonial aityhority. The muslim brotherhood made a policy change in the 1970s no longer supporting violence. They do not support violent Jihad, they may not be supported by the military dictatorship in Egypt but it does not mean they do not have a degree of popular support.

Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Planigale]

Dr. Eli David
@DrEliDavid
Now that the war is over, H×mas terrorists no longer have to pretend they are doctors and journalists, and can wear uniforms again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1977363080800571874

Doctors can wear uniforms! The IDF has journalists and medics in uniform. The IDF has war criminals in uniform, and terrorists not in uniform. It doesn't make the journalists or doctors in uniform war criminals or terrorists.

 

[arthwollipot]

What is a doctor's white coat if not a uniform?

 

[Planigale]

Andy_Ross, there's one thing that I find most vital in this current period of Waiting for Gadot:

Palestinians are simply without decent leadership.most popular Palestinian choice.Not a single individual has stepped up and given any indication their society is prepared for pursuing peace with Israel. I cannot name anyone within Gaza, nor across the hills & valleys of Judea/Samaria, who has expressed their interest in being the next President of Palestine. (well, there's Rawhi Fattouh, a Fatah party functionary, but really, is that the best they've got?)

It's a tough job, and now the Palestinians have tough decisions to make, so hopefully their politics will undergo an appropriate sea-change without HAMAS as the guiding force.

That is the overall program, now let's see it become implemented.

May be because Israelis lock up potential leaders? Such as Marwan Barghouti. The most popular Palestinian choice, and currently a political prisoner of israel.

Marwan Barghouti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He has promoted a two state solution, his true crime in Israeli eyes.

Mohammed Dahlan is a possibility.

In his twenties, he was arrested more than once by the Israeli authorities for political activism, but never for terrorist activities. He put his time in Israeli prisons to good use by learning Hebrew, which he speaks fluently.

Not that israel is anti-democratic! Locking up Palestinians for being politically active.

Who are the future Palestinian leaders post-Gaza deal? | The Jerusalem Post

Who are the prospective Palestinian leaders of the future?

www.jpost.com

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Hostages released by Hamas seem to be in decent shape, given the circumstances, none requiring significant physical hospital care.

Prisoners released by Israel report of starvation and torture, many requiring wheelchairs or other aid.

IDF soldiers filming themselves destroying Gaza sewage treatment facilities as their retreat.

 

[TofuFighter]

Redaction in keeping with current norms*

 

[webfusion]

Just curious, but has anyone even considered that all the five individuals that just got eliminated by IDF drones actually were HAMAS operatives? (in southern part of the territory, as these particular Gazans were stopped while trying to engage against an IDF force just sitting there in static positions.)

There's gonna be more killing in Gaza. No question. HAMAS is not going to ride off quietly into the sunset.

Barghouti? Not Marwan (in prison for 5 life sentences, plus 40 years beyond!)-- rather, Mustafa, a physician, activist, and prominent Palestinian politician known for his secular, reformist orientation.

Here are some of the delightful & non-violent guys that Israel has allowed to go free:

As part of hostage deal: Planner of kidnapping and murder of three teens to be released

Senior Hamas military wing member Mahmoud Kawasmeh to be freed under hostage deal. Ministers were told he "promoted military activities against Judea and Samaria."

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[TofuFighter]

Just curious, but has anyone even considered that all the five individuals that just got eliminated by IDF drones actually were HAMAS operatives? (in southern part of the territory, as these particular Gazans were stopped while trying to engage against an IDF force just sitting there in static positions.)

Can you provide cite?

 

[webfusion]

Cite for the proposition that these fellows killed in a drone strike were HAMAS?
How on earth would I be able to do that? In two years of this war, we haven't been allowed to know (from the Gaza Health Ministry) about the fatalities among HAMAS.

I reviewed various media reports. Some say 'five dead' others indicate six, while there are also mentions of seven.
All the information I've seen says that the IDF called in the drone strike when their positions were encroached.
It's not truly important, because in this fragile ceasefire, all sorts of violations are going to occur daily.
You don't think any jihadist factions in Gaza will send out probes to 'test' the IDF, and even try to 'kill' a tank or APC?

This war is not over. Not by a longshot.

 

[Hercules56]

Cite for the proposition that these fellows killed in a drone strike were HAMAS?
How on earth would I be able to do that? In two years of this war, we haven't been allowed to know (from the Gaza Health Ministry) about the fatalities among HAMAS.

I reviewed various media reports. Some say 'five dead' others indicate six, while there are also mentions of seven.
All the information I've seen says that the IDF called in the drone strike when their positions were encroached.
It's not truly important, because in this fragile ceasefire, all sorts of violations are going to occur daily.
You don't think any jihadist factions in Gaza will send out probes to 'test' the IDF, and even try to 'kill' a tank or APC?

This war is not over. Not by a longshot.

Of course not!!

Fascists and fascist regimes need never ending war to stay in power.