Yes, I knew we would find a Hamas apologist fairly quickly
General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4
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The Great Zaganza
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Why not try to answer the question?
webfusion
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TGZ & arthwollipot, are you guys still worried about a genocide? I think that unfounded fear will quickly subside and become a non-issue in the transformation from open warfare to calm/ceasefire logistics.
“For HAMAS, (not continuing to govern the Gaza Strip) is a closed matter. HAMAS will not take part in the transitional phase, meaning that it has given up control of the Strip, but remains an integral part of Palestinian society.” -- as reported by AFP, quoting a ranking HAMAS source.
www.jpost.com
From what we know, there's a rather well-developed and trained Palestinian (P-A) security force in Sinai right now, all ready to enter and assume civil authority over various functions -- including management of the Rafah gate/border crossing, among other neccessary tasks to maintain the public order and provide administrative services.
(Including supervision of the jihadists' abandonment of their heavy weaponry).
As for the clans (they are not 'gangs' but can be considered armed militia), we can assume they'll be able to push-back hard against any HAMAS attempts to exact revenge. HAMAS has long used mafia-like gangland tactics to keep people in check in Gaza. So, in that respect, it's HAMAS that can be properly called a gang of terrorists who managed to strong-arm their way into bringing Gaza to ruination.
www.jpost.com
“For HAMAS, (not continuing to govern the Gaza Strip) is a closed matter. HAMAS will not take part in the transitional phase, meaning that it has given up control of the Strip, but remains an integral part of Palestinian society.” -- as reported by AFP, quoting a ranking HAMAS source.
Hamas will not rule Gaza in day after | The Jerusalem Post
Trump’s current goal is to demilitarize Hamas, establish a new civilian administration in Gaza, and maintain the ceasefire under international supervision.
www.jpost.com
From what we know, there's a rather well-developed and trained Palestinian (P-A) security force in Sinai right now, all ready to enter and assume civil authority over various functions -- including management of the Rafah gate/border crossing, among other neccessary tasks to maintain the public order and provide administrative services.
(Including supervision of the jihadists' abandonment of their heavy weaponry).
As for the clans (they are not 'gangs' but can be considered armed militia), we can assume they'll be able to push-back hard against any HAMAS attempts to exact revenge. HAMAS has long used mafia-like gangland tactics to keep people in check in Gaza. So, in that respect, it's HAMAS that can be properly called a gang of terrorists who managed to strong-arm their way into bringing Gaza to ruination.
Hamas, Palestinian rioters clash in Gaza over executions | The Jerusalem Post
Hamas will target clans and groups that have shown opposition to the terror group - it will also target those that have worked with Israel, or who it accuses of working with Israel.
www.jpost.com
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Shadowdweller
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Are you REALLY asking whether the terrorist organization whose horrific attack against the civilians of a militarily superior neighbor started the war that, as you claim, killed tens of thousands of children; whose charter stipulates the total annihilation of said neighbor; who has a documented history of commandeering foreign food aid and local infrastructure to illegally manufacture weapons; of using civilians as shields; who was the specific party that Israel sent forces into Gaza to remove in the first place should be left in charge of the region?
Because placing Gaza under the rule of a child sex trafficking ring, drug cartel, or 20th century-style South American dictator would all be orders of magnitude better for the Palestinian people.
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webfusion
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In Arabic, let's take a quick look at a video that shows 'armed gangs' (HAMAS in civilian clothing, mingling with the population) amid the famine, the starvation, the deprivations.
Oh wait, the street scene illustrates markets open, people going about their regular routines, no public disorder.
I wish there was a translation captioned, but I get the general idea of what the interviewer was soliciting in the way of remarks from these regular Gazans.
www.israelnationalnews.com
Oh wait, the street scene illustrates markets open, people going about their regular routines, no public disorder.
I wish there was a translation captioned, but I get the general idea of what the interviewer was soliciting in the way of remarks from these regular Gazans.
Gazan doctor: 'We are completely defeated'
Gaza physician Dr. Az al-Din Shahab posts personal testimony, stressing that he and his family 'lost everything' and blasting Hamas for their false narrative and sacrifice of Gazan civilians. 'We were not soldiers in a war.'
www.israelnationalnews.com
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Andy_Ross
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Dr. Eli David
@DrEliDavid
Breaking – President Trump: “H×mas lost 58,000 people.” 
The total death count in Gaza (according to the H×mas “Ministry of Health”) is 67,000.
With 58,000 of them being terrorists, that’s an 86% ratio, the lowest proportion of civilian casualties in any war in history!
@DrEliDavid
Breaking – President Trump: “H×mas lost 58,000 people.” The total death count in Gaza (according to the H×mas “Ministry of Health”) is 67,000.
With 58,000 of them being terrorists, that’s an 86% ratio, the lowest proportion of civilian casualties in any war in history!
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Like that'll happen.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
What seems to have happened is the Gaza police force and civil defence force that Israel characterises as 'Hamas combatants' and were systematically killed by the iDF have returned to duty to ensure the security of aid deliveries. These are not combatants. Even if armed, police are not combatants. Part of the IDF policy was to systematically destroy the infrastructure of gaza including the law enforcement agencies. Now that they will not be targeted civilians agencies are returning to work.7000 Hamas troops have been mobilised in Gaza. The peace plan will soon unravel because of Hamas. Can the anti-Israel people in this thread at least acknowledge this?
Gaza: Hamas mobilises fighters as fears of internal violence mount
Clashes have already taken place between the group and an armed clan in Gaza City.www.bbc.com
I think that this is a photo of ICE in Chicago?
In Arabic, let's take a quick look at a video that shows 'armed gangs' (HAMAS in civilian clothing, mingling with the population) amid the famine, the starvation, the deprivations.
Oh wait, the street scene illustrates markets open, people going about their regular routines, no public disorder.
I wish there was a translation captioned, but I get the general idea of what the interviewer was soliciting in the way of remarks from these regular Gazans.
Gazan doctor: 'We are completely defeated'
Gaza physician Dr. Az al-Din Shahab posts personal testimony, stressing that he and his family 'lost everything' and blasting Hamas for their false narrative and sacrifice of Gazan civilians. 'We were not soldiers in a war.'
So he accuses Israel of war crimes?
Let us be clear about what human shields are and aren't.
Palestinians strapped to the front of IDF vehicles are human shields. Palestinians forced at gun point to walk in front of IDF troops or enter buildings first are human shields.
Israeli civilians who live in the same building as members of the Israeli border force or IDF whether regular or reserve are not. Israeli civilians who surround members of the IDF both regular and reserve at a dance festival are not human shields. Residents of Tel Aviv where the IDF and Israeli government head quarters are, are not human shields.
Palestinians who live with persons who are not at that time active combatants are not human shields, any more than members of the Nova festival were human shields.
You do not have to propagate IDFpropaganda. You can think for your self. You can draw an equivalence between a Kibbutz where a member of the IDF lives, and an apartment block where a member of Hamas lives. If that alleged Hamas member is not at that time an active combatant then surrounding civilians are just that; civilians. Not human shields. Otherwise most of those killed by Hamas on 07/10 could be characterised as human shields; a position I oppose. The crimes of Hamas are those of Hamas and the perpetrators should be punished. The crimes of the IDF are the crimes of the IDF and the perpetrators should be punished.
Chanakya
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Wrong thread, deleted.
(We really, really need a Nom button. Both generally, and particularly for when you're rushed and posting from phone not computer ---- compulsively, when you should not be! ---- and aren't a supple fingered teen endowed with superpowers that let you handle texting on phone just as well as us lesser mortals manage on our computers! And see something posted that just cries out for a Nom not just a Like.)
Eta: Oh, you Liked my post, @The Great Zaganza , while I was fat fingering through this edit. Thanks! (It's in the Nom thread, where I'd meant to put it in in the first place. It's @Planigale who deserves the Like, and the Nom, and the TLA had there been one still, for this clear simple showing up of this gaslighting, this gaslighting that's endemic everywhere.)
(We really, really need a Nom button. Both generally, and particularly for when you're rushed and posting from phone not computer ---- compulsively, when you should not be! ---- and aren't a supple fingered teen endowed with superpowers that let you handle texting on phone just as well as us lesser mortals manage on our computers! And see something posted that just cries out for a Nom not just a Like.)
Eta: Oh, you Liked my post, @The Great Zaganza , while I was fat fingering through this edit. Thanks! (It's in the Nom thread, where I'd meant to put it in in the first place. It's @Planigale who deserves the Like, and the Nom, and the TLA had there been one still, for this clear simple showing up of this gaslighting, this gaslighting that's endemic everywhere.)
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Hamas have released the final 20 Israeli hostages.
Israel have released 2000 Palestinian prisoners.
I didn't think it would happen, but it did, and I'm relieved. Isn't anyone else in here happy about this? And I mean this, just this, you can leave your predictions and causes for another time.
Israel have released 2000 Palestinian prisoners.
I didn't think it would happen, but it did, and I'm relieved. Isn't anyone else in here happy about this? And I mean this, just this, you can leave your predictions and causes for another time.
webfusion
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Orphia, while I appreciate your sentiments, your statement is factually incorrect.
HAMAS has not yet released the final hostages. While the living ones were indeed given their freedoms for ransom, we still have open the matter of Hadar Goldin and many other deceased 'hostages' as their bodies remain unaccounted-for. As well as the Palestinian corpses being retained by Israel. That entire situation is going to be more tricky, because I'm sure all sorts of logistical problems are involved (on both sides) and further negotiations will arise.
The Hostages and Missing Families Forum indicated that HAMAS providing only four bodies today is “a blatant breach” of the agreement.
www.ynetnews.com
The IDF Hostages and Missing Persons Command is now at the forefront of this particular mission, to secure the transfer of those other few dozens of dead hostages. Maj. Gen. (Res.) Nitzan Alon is in charge of that operation (with about 500 personnel assisting).
Basically, more psychological warfare tactics by HAMAS.
Very difficult story to read, but here it is -----
www.ynetnews.com
HAMAS has not yet released the final hostages. While the living ones were indeed given their freedoms for ransom, we still have open the matter of Hadar Goldin and many other deceased 'hostages' as their bodies remain unaccounted-for. As well as the Palestinian corpses being retained by Israel. That entire situation is going to be more tricky, because I'm sure all sorts of logistical problems are involved (on both sides) and further negotiations will arise.
The Hostages and Missing Families Forum indicated that HAMAS providing only four bodies today is “a blatant breach” of the agreement.
Not all dead hostages will return immediately, says IDF captives' chief, pledging continued efforts
Maj. Gen. (Res.) Nitzan Alon, head of the IDF's Hostages and Missing Persons Command, said the return marks 'a cornerstone for important processes' and 'part of a process of healing, rehabilitation, and renewal of Israeli society'
www.ynetnews.com
The IDF Hostages and Missing Persons Command is now at the forefront of this particular mission, to secure the transfer of those other few dozens of dead hostages. Maj. Gen. (Res.) Nitzan Alon is in charge of that operation (with about 500 personnel assisting).
Basically, more psychological warfare tactics by HAMAS.
Very difficult story to read, but here it is -----
Hamas says it can only release 4 dead hostages; families outcry 'breach' of ceasefire
Hamas announced it will return the bodies of Daniel Perez, Yossi Sharabi, Bipin Joshi and Guy Iluz; families of the 28 fallen hostages are outraged that only four are being returned; IDF: 'Hamas must uphold the agreement'
www.ynetnews.com
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Yes, I'm very happy about this. I hope it's the first step towards a lasting peace.
Hercules56
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Leave it to Israel to end a cease-fire because not enough dead bodies have been returned.Orphia, while I appreciate your sentiments, your statement is factually incorrect.
HAMAS has not yet released the final hostages. While the living ones were indeed given their freedoms for ransom, we still have open the matter of Hadar Goldin and many other deceased 'hostages' as their bodies remain unaccounted-for. As well as the Palestinian corpses being retained by Israel. That entire situation is going to be more tricky, because I'm sure all sorts of logistical problems are involved (on both sides) and further negotiations will arise.
The Hostages and Missing Families Forum indicated that HAMAS providing only four bodies today is “a blatant breach” of the agreement.
...Not all dead hostages will return immediately, says IDF captives' chief, pledging continued efforts
Maj. Gen. (Res.) Nitzan Alon, head of the IDF's Hostages and Missing Persons Command, said the return marks 'a cornerstone for important processes' and 'part of a process of healing, rehabilitation, and renewal of Israeli society'
Shadowdweller
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HAMAS did not force the IDF to use human shields among other things. They did that all on their own.
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Hercules56
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Dont get your hopes up.
Now that the hostages are all back, Bibi the Butcher wont hesitate to find an excuse to start the slaughter again.
He needs it to stay out of prison.