Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Propagate a company that shows (is showing right now) porn (including violent and extreme porn) to kids?
It is curious that we have SJW for all kinds of issues but where are they when it comes to this?
 
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Poem said:
Pornhub (or Aylo who own them) are morally bankrupt aren't they? They should face crippling financial liabilities shouldn't they?
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Why? They do their best to stay within the law. NCC and CSAM is banned from their site, and short of the intrusive measures now in place in the UK and soon to be implemented in Australia, they do what they can to ensure that underage users don't access it. No, I don't think they're "morally bankrupt" and I don't think they should face crippling financial liabilities. They provide a service, legally and with all the protections that they are capable of applying.
Poem said:
Propagate a company that shows (is showing right now) porn (including violent and extreme porn) to kids?
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It does not set out to do so and prevents it as much as is possible.

Let's step back from porn for a moment and instead take a look at horror movies. In my opinion horror films have far more potential to have lasting negative effects on children than porn does (anxiety, nightmares, inability to sleep leading to stress, etc.). What is being done to keep horror movies out of the hands of children? We slap an R18 rating on them and implement parental controls on streaming services. Does that mean that children are never able to access violent and extreme horror content? No. It's quite easy for them to bypass these restrictions. But you're not screaming for horror movies to be banned, are you? Why not? Why is sex so dangerous while extreme bloody violence is just fine? What's the average age at which a child first sees a movie in which a person is violently killed? I'll bet it's below 13.

It is the height of hypocrisy to go on a righteous crusade against legal pornography while ignoring the extremely graphic horror movies that children can routinely access.

Also, while children are seeing these horror movies, they are absolutely not acting out what they see. So why should they be acting out what they might be seeing in porn?

Your whole crusade is ridiculous and misguided. You should give up. You're never going to be able to ban porn. At most you will ban legal porn, and that's worse.
 
i don't really think it's practical, or desirable, for porn sites to have a strong age verification system. you don't want porn sites having large databases of the personal information required to verify age since they're pretty unlikely to handle it responsibly or securely. furthermore, it will just push them to relocate to regions where these kinds of laws don't exist, but still just as accessible on the same internet. just like piracy and online casinos did.

this is much more in the realm of being user end or isp end imo
 
arthwollipot said:
Why? They do their best to stay within the law. NCC and CSAM is banned from their site, and short of the intrusive measures now in place in the UK and soon to be implemented in Australia, they do what they can to ensure that underage users don't access it. No, I don't think they're "morally bankrupt" and I don't think they should face crippling financial liabilities. They provide a service, legally and with all the protections that they are capable of applying.

It does not set out to do so and prevents it as much as is possible.

Let's step back from porn for a moment and instead take a look at horror movies. In my opinion horror films have far more potential to have lasting negative effects on children than porn does (anxiety, nightmares, inability to sleep leading to stress, etc.). What is being done to keep horror movies out of the hands of children? We slap an R18 rating on them and implement parental controls on streaming services. Does that mean that children are never able to access violent and extreme horror content? No. It's quite easy for them to bypass these restrictions. But you're not screaming for horror movies to be banned, are you? Why not? Why is sex so dangerous while extreme bloody violence is just fine? What's the average age at which a child first sees a movie in which a person is violently killed? I'll bet it's below 13.

It is the height of hypocrisy to go on a righteous crusade against legal pornography while ignoring the extremely graphic horror movies that children can routinely access.

Also, while children are seeing these horror movies, they are absolutely not acting out what they see. So why should they be acting out what they might be seeing in porn?

Your whole crusade is ridiculous and misguided. You should give up. You're never going to be able to ban porn. At most you will ban legal porn, and that's worse.
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Yes.

I remember being terrified after seeing a cheesy horror film as a kid. I had nightmares about it. I remember seeing a movie showing the last hours and execution of a prisoner and not being able to sleep. They negatively affected me much more than any porn film.
 
Poem said:
Pornhub (or Aylo who own them) are morally bankrupt aren't they?
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Businesses are not moral agents. They exist to make money. Sometimes at the displeasure of their own customer base (see '◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.')

(lol.. encusssification.)

If they need stiffer penalties to get meaningful compliance out of them, we should do that. I'm still somewhat incredulous that there are not already stiffer penalties for hosting CSAM and I assume it's down to laws the web hosts, facebook, twitter/x etc lobbied for, to shield hosts.
 
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Poem said:
The assumption that such material is harmful, especially to children, has been held by the majority of humanity since forever. If you want to show otherwise, then the onus is on you.
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Yeah, thats not even remotely true. Maybe lookup attitudes towards sex and nudity in ancient Greece or the Roman Republic/Empire.
 
dirtywick said:
weren't the greeks like giant pederasts for hundreds of years?
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Yes. Not only would some past societies not be bothered by porn, many of them wouldn't be bothered because of the "OMG think of the children!" aspect. Hell the "OMG think of the children" part is extremely recent for humanity. Kids as young as 8 were hanged for theft if I'm not mistaken in early modern Britain.
 
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acbytesla said:
Yes.

I remember being terrified after seeing a cheesy horror film as a kid. I had nightmares about it. I remember seeing a movie showing the last hours and execution of a prisoner and not being able to sleep. They negatively affected me much more than any porn film.
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Me too.
 
arthwollipot said:
Why? They do their best to stay within the law. NCC and CSAM is banned from their site, and short of the intrusive measures now in place in the UK and soon to be implemented in Australia, they do what they can to ensure that underage users don't access it. No, I don't think they're "morally bankrupt" and I don't think they should face crippling financial liabilities. They provide a service, legally and with all the protections that they are capable of applying.

It does not set out to do so and prevents it as much as is possible.
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Free tube sites like Pornhub do not do that - they do not ensure children cannot access their sites. They might ask if your are over 18, that is all. The OSA has forced them to take further measures but it's unlikely that they will be efficacious (and that's just in the UK of course).
arthwollipot said:
Let's step back from porn for a moment and instead take a look at horror movies. In my opinion horror films have far more potential to have lasting negative effects on children than porn does (anxiety, nightmares, inability to sleep leading to stress, etc.). What is being done to keep horror movies out of the hands of children? We slap an R18 rating on them and implement parental controls on streaming services. Does that mean that children are never able to access violent and extreme horror content? No. It's quite easy for them to bypass these restrictions. But you're not screaming for horror movies to be banned, are you? Why not? Why is sex so dangerous while extreme bloody violence is just fine? What's the average age at which a child first sees a movie in which a person is violently killed? I'll bet it's below 13.
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I wouldn't scream here though - wrong thread.
arthwollipot said:
It is the height of hypocrisy to go on a righteous crusade against legal pornography while ignoring the extremely graphic horror movies that children can routinely access.
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See above.
arthwollipot said:
Also, while children are seeing these horror movies, they are absolutely not acting out what they see. So why should they be acting out what they might be seeing in porn?
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Movies that glorify violence are often criticised - but, in general, we understand that nobody is actually harmed or killed in violent films; we know that what we are seeing is make-believe. That is not the case with porn (and we have already covered this). Children (not just children) do act out what they are seeing. The sex is really happening. I've quoted Critchley, De Souza and Children's Charities.

The Guardian (10 January 2024):
Boys are watching violent porn on their smartphones then going on to attack girls, police have said, as new data showed children are now the biggest perpetrators of sexual abuse against other children.

For what other reason would children be sharing indecent images of themselves than the normalisation of that very behaviour...which porn is? (....here kids....this is what we do....we upload porn...and we don't shield you from it...which has led to you doing the same...cos we normalised it....I mean....why wouldn't you?...you know we aren't going to criminalise you for it...)
arthwollipot said:
Your whole crusade is ridiculous and misguided. You should give up. You're never going to be able to ban porn. At most you will ban legal porn, and that's worse.
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Most people watch porn and aren't disinterested.
 
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Poem said:
Free tube sites like Pornhub do not do that - they do not ensure children cannot access their sites.
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Neither do R18-rated movies.

Poem said:
I wouldn't scream here though - wrong thread.
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I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

Poem said:
Movies that glorify violence are often criticised - but, in general, we understand that nobody is actually harmed or killed in violent films; we know that what we are seeing is make-believe. That is not the case with porn (and we have already covered this). Children (not just children) do act out what they are seeing. The sex is really happening. I've quoted Critchley, De Souza and Children's Charities.
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And I've rebutted your arguments. The only reason - if it is true, which I dispute - that children don't understand that what they are seeing in porn is make-believe is that we haven't spent the time to tell them that it's make believe. Because children are exposed to violent content all the time, parents tell their children "no, that's not real, that's all just movie magic" at an early age. But because we puritanically withhold from them any information about sex and sexuality, they don't understand that.

But like I said, I dispute the findings of religiously Catholic Brits for reasons that I've gone into. Children will be shamed into lying to authorities about their motivations for doing what they know they're not supposed to do.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Yeah, thats not even remotely true. Maybe lookup attitudes towards sex and nudity in ancient Greece or the Roman Republic/Empire.
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Maybe I should not have used the word 'forever' since we aren't comparing like with like.
 
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