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Merged Artificial Intelligence

AI art or work, and our reaction to it reveals some deeper truth we seem to share on some level: people should be paid for the amount of work they have put in, not necessarily based on the result (as long as it meets requirements).
We might accept AI art or programs or articles as functional, but we wouldn't think that the person who gave the prompt should be paid the same as a human having produced something similar over a much longer time: one put in the work, the other didn't.
 
Blue Mountain said:
It's for stuff like this that AI/LLM tools are useful. I've been programming computers for over forty years, but I find LLMs handy for spitting bits and pieces of code so I can concentrate on the overall program instead of the minutiae. And every once in a while it shows me a part of the programming language that's new to me, which means I learn something.
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In other words, for taking care of the "administrative work" part of the creative process. The tedious bits. The bits that you have to do, but you don't really enjoy doing, because they're repetitive, or mundane, or just not that fun. Yes?
 
I too like to call the bits of the creative process that I'm not very good at the tedious and useless bits, but I'm only fooling myself.
 
Dr.Sid said:
That's the issue for me. He's an artist. Artists think different. Wide. Fuzzy. Possibilities. Emotions. Just when they are near a point .. they will start with another angle. I'm software engineer. Give me a formula. Short one preferably. Emotions ? What's that. Where's that in the formula ?
In the beginning he talks about the letdown when he learns an art he likes is AI. I don't have that. First I usually don't like anything. I'm old(ish) cynic. But if I do .. and then I learn it's AI .. I'm excited. AI is exciting. All the progress, every week something new. Sure, I wouldn't really say using generative AI is an art .. it's skill at best. And 99% is pure slop. But the AIs themselves, the training process, the math behind it .. that's the art. I mean as long as you consider engineering an art .. but I do.
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The highlighted makes me doubt you know what cynicism (or scepticism for that matter) is.
 
Dr.Sid said:
That's the issue for me. He's an artist. Artists think different. Wide. Fuzzy. Possibilities. Emotions. Just when they are near a point .. they will start with another angle. I'm software engineer. Give me a formula. Short one preferably. Emotions ? What's that. Where's that in the formula ?
In the beginning he talks about the letdown when he learns an art he likes is AI. I don't have that. First I usually don't like anything. I'm old(ish) cynic. But if I do .. and then I learn it's AI .. I'm excited. AI is exciting. All the progress, every week something new. Sure, I wouldn't really say using generative AI is an art .. it's skill at best. And 99% is pure slop. But the AIs themselves, the training process, the math behind it .. that's the art. I mean as long as you consider engineering an art .. but I do.
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Also the theft. When a heist of this magnitude is pulled off successfully, to the point where none of the thieves are likely to be punished, it has truly reached artistic proportions on the level of Carmen Sandiego.
 
arthwollipot said:
The Oatmeal nails it, I think, in this kind of long comic:

theoatmeal.com

A cartoonist's review of AI art - The Oatmeal

This is a comic about AI art.
theoatmeal.com theoatmeal.com
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I agree with a lot of what he says but have a fundamental disagreement, if a piece of art has an emotional impact on me, it does so regardless of how it was created. Now a piece can have additional impact on me outside of the artwork itself. I remember crying over some sketches from a Holocaust exhibition, which was because I knew they were artwork created often by people who would have within days or weeks be dead after terrible suffering. To be blunt if I had seen them stripped of that context I probably would have thought something like not very good technique, topic's a bit boring and moved on and not had an emotional connection. But it doesn't work the other way around for me.

To me AI artwork stands or falls on what it looks like, nothing more, nothing less. One of my major criticisms is the same I used to have about Devientart.com it seemed to be mainly cyber-punk cats, anime princesses, manga characters and fantasy illustrations!
 
arthwollipot said:
In other words, for taking care of the "administrative work" part of the creative process. The tedious bits. The bits that you have to do, but you don't really enjoy doing, because they're repetitive, or mundane, or just not that fun. Yes?
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I don't recall where I first heard it, but: "AI is better used to do tedious work for creative people than creative work for tedious people."

It's not two thousand words and a picture book's worth of rat asses, but there you go.
 
arthwollipot said:
In other words, for taking care of the "administrative work" part of the creative process. The tedious bits. The bits that you have to do,
but you don't really enjoy doing, because they're repetitive, or mundane, or just not that fun. Yes?
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Yet he also extolls those as virtues. Never mind that for most people they will never know or care what work went into a piece of art they like or don't like.
 
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Darat said:
I agree with a lot of what he says but have a fundamental disagreement, if a piece of art has an emotional impact on me, it does so regardless of how it was created. Now a piece can have additional impact on me outside of the artwork itself. I remember crying over some sketches from a Holocaust exhibition, which was because I knew they were artwork created often by people who would have within days or weeks be dead after terrible suffering. To be blunt if I had seen them stripped of that context I probably would have thought something like not very good technique, topic's a bit boring and moved on and not had an emotional connection. But it doesn't work the other way around for me.
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AI by definition has none of that context. Identical sketches created by an AI have zero impact. If I go to ChatGPT and say "draw a sketch in the style of children being held in concentration camps prior to their execution" there is no emotion behind that. It's standing at the Casio keyboard, pushing a button, and pretending to play.

Darat said:
To me AI artwork stands or falls on what it looks like, nothing more, nothing less. One of my major criticisms is the same I used to have about Devientart.com it seemed to be mainly cyber-punk cats, anime princesses, manga characters and fantasy illustrations!
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I found this site to be pretty useful when browsing DeviantArt:

wasitai.com

/wasitai

Check if images were generated by a machine
wasitai.com wasitai.com

I've done a small amount of testing, and it appears to be able to detect fairly reliably when AI has been used in the production of an image. I'm sure there are other similar tools, but this is the one I found.
 
I'm still confused about this emotion in art. I mean not just right here, right now. In general.
I understand a book or a movie can invoke emotions. But it's mostly recreating some real life situation, even if hypothetical. It works, because it's realistic. The situation is sad, because it would be sad, if it had really happened.
There's no question about music. I can get goosebumps from single tone. The harmony is basically theory of emotions. Every sequence of tones is emotional somehow. Add lyrics and the human voice, which transfers emotions whether you want or not .. and it just works. Also music is major part of emotions in the movies.
But painting ? Statues ? Nope. I can be like: wow, that's beautiful. That's very skillful. I couldn't done that. Also it's mostly about realism again .. Picasso ? Modern art ? Not for me, clearly.
 
arthwollipot said:
AI by definition has none of that context. Identical sketches created by an AI have zero impact. If I go to ChatGPT and say "draw a sketch in the style of children being held in concentration camps prior to their execution" there is no emotion behind that. It's standing at the Casio keyboard, pushing a button, and pretending to play.
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Never said it could. But I think you are wrong. Albeit very unlikely given the conditions but what if a kid in Gaza was using generative AI to produce images that they felt reflected their emotions, their struggles and so on? I would say that would add to to any emotional impact those images would have.

Generative AI creations are new, I suspect that the kids of today will consider it "art" without any of the soul searching it is causing us old luddites!

I use software such as Procreate and Photoshop to create my artwork, it isn't that long ago that such digital artwork wasn't consider "real art". I mentioned in another thread how I've decided to use AI in my own work and it falls under what he described as the admin stuff but I not going to condemn another artist that makes a different decision. If it produces artwork that I like then the tool is irrelevant. At the moment the flaws in AI generated work tend to stop me seeing an image I like.

arthwollipot said:
I found this site to be pretty useful when browsing DeviantArt:

wasitai.com

/wasitai

Check if images were generated by a machine
wasitai.com wasitai.com

I've done a small amount of testing, and it appears to be able to detect fairly reliably when AI has been used in the production of an image. I'm sure there are other similar tools, but this is the one I found.
Click to expand...
My comment was more about what used to be the content on DeviantArt say 10 years ago. Generative art has just exacerbated the issue!
 
Skeptical Greg said:
Why does he need to be understood?
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You can appreciate art on many levels, sometimes knowing about the artist and how they created an artwork can change your view of it. Plus of course the more famous artists have become memes so for some people without even seeing his artwork he will be in their mind the bloke that just splashed some paint on a canvas.
 
Of course knowledge changes your appreciation of something, whether it's the symbolism of the Catholic last rites in Dali's Christ of St John of the Cross or admiring a bright blue sky more because you know about Rayleigh scattering in the upper atmosphere and the colour receptors in the human eye.
 
An interesting thread on people's interactions with LLMs. Don't be put off by the first post. Unless you want to. How do you feel about that?

Valerie Aurora 🇺🇦 (@vaurora@mstdn.social)

Every couple of weeks, I read r/MyBoyfriendIsAI because I am very interested in how people who are different from me think. Over the last few months, something interesting has happened: r/MyBoyfriendIsAI has been radicalized against Big Tech. ChatGPT-4o was apparently uniquely good at...
mstdn.social mstdn.social
 
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